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Post by boiler on Aug 20, 2019 19:21:51 GMT -8
Was Anderson the worst coach ever at OSU??? Kip Taylor was a sad replacement for Lon Stiner. After Dee Andros we suffered through Craig Fertig and Joe Avezzano. Definitely an awful hire by the big Dunce...Bobby D. Maybe we should talk about worst AD ever! Or Robert MacVicar as worst University President ever. Seems that OSU continues to stumble between successes. So Adley Rutchman is the greatest athlete to come from OSU since Terry Baker.... so ask your AD why we can't buy an OSU Rutchman baseball jersey?
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Post by seastape on Aug 20, 2019 19:26:16 GMT -8
I was going to post what I am going to post, but I did not want to just respond to myself, so thank you for giving me the opportunity. Clemson (4-3 base) 44 - Alabama (3-4 base) 16 Clemson ran for 135 yards rushing (4.4 ypc) and passed for 347 yards (10.8 yards/pass). Clemson was 10-15 on third down and 1-1 on fourth down. Clemson was 5-6 on third down with 3rd & 6 or less and converted the fourth down on the sole third down stop. Alabama, the second best defensive team in all of college football, could not manage a single sack out of the 3-4. Drives allowed: Touchdown: 4 plays, 75 yards. Converted a 3rd & 14. Touchdown: 6 plays, 65 yards. Converted a 3rd & 5. Touchdown: 8 plays, 47 yards. Converted a 3rd & 2 and 3rd & 7. Field Goal: 8 plays, 61 yards. Touchdown: 3 plays, 76 yards. Touchdown: 12 plays, 89 yards. Converted a 3rd & 12, 3rd & 9, and 3rd & 5. End of Game: 14 plays, 94 yards. Converted 3rd & 1, 3rd & 6, and 4th & 5.
I still maintain that, if Alabama cannot run a successful 3-4, Tibs has a snowball's chance of running a successful 3-4 in Corvallis.
Still, even as 3-4's go, Tibs' was uninspiring and still seemingly too complex to be run successfully last year.At least a part of Clemson's defensive dominance last year vs. Alabama can be attributed to the fact that 3 of their 4 starting DL were picked in the first 17 picks of the draft (4, 13, 17) this year with the fourth DL falling all the way down to the 4th round (15).
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Post by boiler on Aug 20, 2019 19:26:30 GMT -8
Was Anderson the worst coach ever at OSU??? Kip Taylor was a sad replacement for Lon Stiner. After Dee Andros we suffered through Craig Fertig and Joe Avezzano. Definitely an awful hire by the big Dunce...Bobby D. Maybe we should talk about worst AD ever! Or Robert MacVicar as worst University President ever. Seems that OSU continues to stumble between successes. So Adley Rutchman is the greatest athlete to come from OSU since Terry Baker.... so ask your AD why we can't buy an OSU Rutchman baseball jersey?
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Post by ee1990 on Aug 20, 2019 21:45:29 GMT -8
I still maintain that, if Alabama cannot run a successful 3-4, Tibs has a snowball's chance of running a successful 3-4 in Corvallis.
I don't like this logic, but I'm not drinking so I don't want to argue. I don't think it's that we lack the talent for a 3-4, it's that we lack talent. People made fun of Oregon's gimmicky systems for years when in reality they were putting dudes in the NFL year after year. Scheme only goes so far, you need players to run it whatever it is, whatever side of the ball it is. Maybe we don't have a great defensive coach in addition to being limited talent wise, I dunno. I hope not. If that's the case I hope Niner has the stones to cut dead weight and do what needs to be done to make this a winning program again. I would also say that a huge portion of what makes a defense is play calling(DUH). Down and distance and your opponent's offensive alignment/personnel is what dictates the defenses alignment anyway. What's our base defense vs WSU? Sure as heck not the same as it is vs Stanford. But play calling out of that alignment and having your guys prepared to play multiple roles when there's an injury or when the offense doesn't substitute and you have to roll with the same 11 is more key than whatever base defense that only really gets played 1 in 3 downs is.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 20, 2019 22:42:00 GMT -8
I still maintain that, if Alabama cannot run a successful 3-4, Tibs has a snowball's chance of running a successful 3-4 in Corvallis.
That is a massive, massive bit of logical fallacy. Alabama year in year out has a top defense in the nation and your reason that it won't work in Corvallis is because they lost to one of the most talented offensive teams in CFB history? In fact, 3 of the 4 teams that made the CFB playoff are a base 3-4. What did the 4-3 do for OU vs Alabama? 45 points is what. And regardless, this is all semantic nonsense ignoring the real issue, and that is recruiting. With the way teams are using their OLB as a hybrid DE in a 4 man front or as a traditional OLB in a 3-4 and bringing a 5th DB on to the field, this argument is absurd, ignores the real issues at hand, and demonstrates a lack of understanding. Down and distance and the opposing offense's formation dictates what defenses run, not some archaic insistence on defining a defense being a 4-3 or a 3-4. Whoa! A lot to unpack there. First off. No. Clemson was not special. Alabama, Georgia, and Oklahoma were all better offensively last year. If you put the last two years up together, the Tigers were probably around the 10th-most talented offense in NCAA football, no better and no worse. And the Sooners put up 34 on Alabama's vaunted 3-4. Second. No. Oklahoma runs a base nickel 4-2-5/3-3-5 Jack hybrid. Outside of Alabama, the best offense that Oklahoma played all year was West Virginia, and the Sooners gave up 56. The second-best offense? Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma gave up 47 and would have lost, except for a missed two-point try. The third-best offense? Texas. 48 points in the sole regular season loss. Third. Notre Dame runs a base 4-2-5/4-3 Rover hybrid. A less-talented Irish held Clemson to 30 points and generally outplayed a far-more-talented Alabama against the same offense. Top four defenses 2018: 1. Clemson 4-3 2. Alabama 3-4 3. Michigan State 4-3 4. Miami 4-3
I agree with you in the abstract. But a 3-4 is almost always going to be weak against the run versus a 4-3. Maybe, this year, we see something different. But a base 3-4 with no bells and whistles seems like last year is a recipe for disaster in Corvallis.
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Post by ee1990 on Aug 20, 2019 23:03:50 GMT -8
That is a massive, massive bit of logical fallacy. Alabama year in year out has a top defense in the nation and your reason that it won't work in Corvallis is because they lost to one of the most talented offensive teams in CFB history? In fact, 3 of the 4 teams that made the CFB playoff are a base 3-4. What did the 4-3 do for OU vs Alabama? 45 points is what. And regardless, this is all semantic nonsense ignoring the real issue, and that is recruiting. With the way teams are using their OLB as a hybrid DE in a 4 man front or as a traditional OLB in a 3-4 and bringing a 5th DB on to the field, this argument is absurd, ignores the real issues at hand, and demonstrates a lack of understanding. Down and distance and the opposing offense's formation dictates what defenses run, not some archaic insistence on defining a defense being a 4-3 or a 3-4. Whoa! A lot to unpack there. First off. No. Clemson was not special. Alabama, Georgia, and Oklahoma were all better offensively this year. If you put the last two years up together, the Tigers were probably around the 10th-most talented offense in NCAA football, no better and no worse. And the Sooners put up 34 on Alabama's vaunted 3-4. Second. No. Oklahoma runs a base nickel 4-2-5/3-3-5 Jack hybrid. Outside of Alabama, the best offense that Oklahoma played all year was West Virginia, and the Sooners gave up 56. The second-best offense? Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma gave up 47 and would have lost, except for a missed two-point try. The third-best offense? Texas. 48 points in the sole regular season loss. Yawn. Third. Notre Dame runs a base 4-2-5/4-3 Rover hybrid. A less-talented Irish held Clemson to 30 points and generally outplayed a far-more-talented Alabama against the same offense. Top four defenses 2018: 1. Clemson 4-3 2. Alabama 3-4 3. Michigan State 4-3 4. Miami 4-3
I agree with you in the abstract. But a 3-4 is almost always going to be weak against the run versus a 4-3. Maybe, this year, we see something different. But a base 3-4 with no bells and whistles like last year is a recipe for disaster in Corvallis.Let it be known that I edited my post to not be an asshole somehow before you replied.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 5:47:23 GMT -8
Was Anderson the worst coach ever at OSU??? Kip Taylor was a sad replacement for Lon Stiner. After Dee Andros we suffered through Craig Fertig and Joe Avezzano. Definitely an awful hire by the big Dunce...Bobby D. Maybe we should talk about worst AD ever! Or Robert MacVicar as worst University President ever. Seems that OSU continues to stumble between successes. So Adley Rutchman is the greatest athlete to come from OSU since Terry Baker.... so ask your AD why we can't buy an OSU Rutchman baseball jersey? Hahaha double rainbow post
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Post by biggieorange on Aug 21, 2019 9:58:43 GMT -8
I still maintain that, if Alabama cannot run a successful 3-4, Tibs has a snowball's chance of running a successful 3-4 in Corvallis.
I don't like this logic, but I'm not drinking so I don't want to argue. I don't think it's that we lack the talent for a 3-4, it's that we lack talent. People made fun of Oregon's gimmicky systems for years when in reality they were putting dudes in the NFL year after year. Scheme only goes so far, you need players to run it whatever it is, whatever side of the ball it is. Maybe we don't have a great defensive coach in addition to being limited talent wise, I dunno. I hope not. If that's the case I hope Niner has the stones to cut dead weight and do what needs to be done to make this a winning program again. I would also say that a huge portion of what makes a defense is play calling(DUH). Down and distance and your opponent's offensive alignment/personnel is what dictates the defenses alignment anyway. What's our base defense vs WSU? Sure as heck not the same as it is vs Stanford. But play calling out of that alignment and having your guys prepared to play multiple roles when there's an injury or when the offense doesn't substitute and you have to roll with the same 11 is more key than whatever base defense that only really gets played 1 in 3 downs is. Well, from what I forced myself to watch of the 2018 team. And yes when the Beavs went on Defense I would regularly step out of the room for a bathroom/sandwich/beer run -shoot anything to avoid watching it. The Beavers typically failed to execute what I will assume was their base defense. So I don't blame Tibs too much for keeping it vanilla if they guys can't do the basics correctly. Yeah maybe he should have adjusted earlier, but calling a different scheme/play doesn't change anything when the front 7 just allows themselves to be blocked. It also makes it difficult for coaches to figure out what they need to improve upon if you can't separate execution from confusion. Playing so many freshmen/sophomore that is a real risk. I think the staff wanted to maximize player eval (hence giving all the time to young guys), they knew this first really bad season was not going to put them on the hot seat and they needed to figure out what areas HAD to be band-aided with JUCO and other transfers. Granted I think they hoped to be more competitive by scoring points, but more important to the program was figuring out who from a HISTORICALLY bad defense would buy in, be able recognize mistakes and improve in the off season. Throwing some curve balls at offenses last year might have garnered you some turnovers and sacks to stop drives, but that sort of play-calling can mask individual deficiency and allow players to minimize their own shortcomings (ie not being good fundamentally against the run, "but coach I had 5 sacks last year!". If you are running base defense your responsibilities really never waver and watching film becomes quite easy and when I say that, Im talking about the player watching film and learning, not the coaches. Of course it looked like no one played particularly well last year, but anyone who has played the game knows that it really takes 11 guys doing their jobs for any success against a competent Offense; unless you have a freak Stephen Paea type (We can all agree that guy was not on the 2018 roster), who makes up for others mistakes by demanding double teams all game long. 2 guys consistently not executing it makes it look like no one is, then is sort of snowballs, guys start taking chances and making bigger mistakes. I expect all this to change quite a bit against OK State, but who knows maybe Tibs is gone after this year, cause if the defense isn't a lot better Coach Niner will hear about it, he doesn't seem type so sit back and expect a miracle in season 3.
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Post by shelby on Aug 21, 2019 11:31:10 GMT -8
Where I get frustrated - Third and short - Other team gets it 75% of the time ( OSU line play and poor tackling at the LOS ) Third and long - Other team get's it 75% of the time ( OSU playing 7-8 yards off of the receivers and no ABSOLUTELY GOING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN COVERAGE on The OBVIOUS, ONE athlete on the field that can beat you at any time in the game )...Also 7-8 yards on FIRST DOWN , seem to get it whenever they want it. Too frustrated to identify any more 'appear to be a problem' areas.
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Post by orangeattack on Aug 21, 2019 15:18:29 GMT -8
Where I get frustrated - Third and short - Other team gets it 75% of the time ( OSU line play and poor tackling at the LOS ) Third and long - Other team get's it 75% of the time ( OSU playing 7-8 yards off of the receivers and no ABSOLUTELY GOING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN COVERAGE on The OBVIOUS, ONE athlete on the field that can beat you at any time in the game )...Also 7-8 yards on FIRST DOWN , seem to get it whenever they want it. Too frustrated to identify any more 'appear to be a problem' areas. I mean.. you're not pointing out problem areas, you're pointing out performance trends (results) that you don't like. Over the last 30 years I've been watching college football, there are some distinctly obvious truths and one of them is always that the first year a new scheme is installed on defense, the first season is disastrous. Defense is recognize, read, and react and if you're slow on step one then you will be awful on step two and three. Without exception. Sometimes you can mask this with freak athletes, but only so much. The other team was converting on 3rd down 75% of the time because the defense was playing in base D 75% of the time, and half the time there was an error defensively, half the time guys were getting physically beat. It was mental errors and a talent gap both. Tibs was being asked to make chicken salad from chicken s%#t.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 15:27:25 GMT -8
I mean.. you're not pointing out problem areas, you're pointing out performance trends (results) that you don't like. Over the last 30 years I've been watching college football, there are some distinctly obvious truths and one of them is always that the first year a new scheme is installed on defense, the first season is disastrous. Defense is recognize, read, and react and if you're slow on step one then you will be awful on step two and three. Without exception. Sometimes you can mask this with freak athletes, but only so much. The other team was converting on 3rd down 75% of the time because the defense was playing in base D 75% of the time, and half the time there was an error defensively, half the time guys were getting physically beat. It was mental errors and a talent gap both. Tibs was being asked to make chicken salad from chicken s%#t. Aight. But what about that obvious tackle eligible gaffe you adroitly pointed at in the fusky game? Needed some coaching awareness there and a timeout if I recall...
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Post by giantkillers83 on Aug 21, 2019 17:02:51 GMT -8
Was Anderson the worst coach ever at OSU??? Kip Taylor was a sad replacement for Lon Stiner. After Dee Andros we suffered through Craig Fertig and Joe Avezzano. Definitely an awful hire by the big Dunce...Bobby D. Maybe we should talk about worst AD ever! Or Robert MacVicar as worst University President ever. Seems that OSU continues to stumble between successes. So Adley Rutchman is the greatest athlete to come from OSU since Terry Baker.... so ask your AD why we can't buy an OSU Rutchman baseball jersey? Can blame Bobby D for a lot... but you can’t blame him for Fertig nor Joe Avacado.... our boy Dee Andros was AD then.... and he answered to Robert MacVicar.... who is indeed the worst president in OSU history. At least my history. Which is growing to be extensive, I cringe to say. At one point Dee wanted to hire Dennis Erickson from Idaho.... got nixed by hiring committee and MacVicar... and we know how well THAT turned out.
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Post by obf on Aug 22, 2019 7:24:14 GMT -8
Was Anderson the worst coach ever at OSU??? Kip Taylor was a sad replacement for Lon Stiner. After Dee Andros we suffered through Craig Fertig and Joe Avezzano. Definitely an awful hire by the big Dunce...Bobby D. Maybe we should talk about worst AD ever! Or Robert MacVicar as worst University President ever. Seems that OSU continues to stumble between successes. So Adley Rutchman is the greatest athlete to come from OSU since Terry Baker.... so ask your AD why we can't buy an OSU Rutchman baseball jersey? Hahaha double rainbow post
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 22, 2019 12:25:47 GMT -8
Hahaha double rainbow post I personally prefer the song:
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