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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 9, 2024 9:58:59 GMT -8
It has seemed to me that Lindgren's offenses have become less effective over time--against talented defenses. This past year, against the best teams we faced (excluding Notre Dame because that was a patchwork of our actual offense), we scored 21 against Utah, 7 against Oregon, 24 against AZ, and 20 against UW. The only game close to our 32 point average was AZ. Our average was helped by two non conference blow outs and a 62 point game against Stanford. In 2022 the best conference teams we faced were Utah, USC, UW, and Oregon. We couldn't break 20 against Utah or USC, scored 21 against UW and only beat our 32 point average against Oregon, scoring 38. I realize that its easier to score points against lesser teams but it seems to me, 2022 Oregon aside, the only thing keeping us in games against better teams that last two years has been our defense. Yet in 2021 our 7-6 team managed to score 42 against eventual conference champ Utah and laid 45 against a USC team that was ranked #14 at the time. Its like these other programs, over time, have managed to figure out Lindgren's offense. And the better programs have the horses to load the box and manage our running game. Although Lindgren has not been able to compensate by fielding a particularly productive passing game, he's still been able to run over the lesser programs. Hence our 32 ppg average. I think this situation speaks to Bray's comments about needing a more explosive, more varied, less predictable offense. Our offense has been much more of a limitation on how far our program could go than our defense. Like many others, I"m really looking forward to see what Bray and Gunderson can do. We could also start a whole thread about how the offense was really Coach M and the offensive line he built. It is hard to win games without great QB play, but somehow, some way, OSU did it for 3 years. We had an OL that mostly won, and rock solid running game.
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zzufrevaeb
Sophomore
Not beaverfuzz
hi
Posts: 1,500
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Feb 9, 2024 10:17:22 GMT -8
The funny thing is, two of the bigger jobs he coveted were going to open up for him if he had just waited and finished the season out. Jonathan learned that his agent doesn't treat him nearly the same as coaches higher up the food chain. And I'm absolutely fine with that.
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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 9, 2024 10:24:47 GMT -8
The funny thing is, two of the bigger jobs he coveted were going to open up for him if he had just waited and finished the season out. Jonathan learned that his agent doesn't treat him nearly the same as coaches higher up the food chain. And I'm absolutely fine with that. It has to burn him that UCLA is 100% open in the next season and I am here for that pain. and USC has pretty strong odds in the next season or two.
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Post by NativeBeav on Feb 9, 2024 11:24:34 GMT -8
The funny thing is, two of the bigger jobs he coveted were going to open up for him if he had just waited and finished the season out. Jonathan learned that his agent doesn't treat him nearly the same as coaches higher up the food chain. And I'm absolutely fine with that. I wonder if these "agents" are compensated like head hunters - you get paid when you place someone in a position. Or, are the just paid a salary, or both?
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 9, 2024 11:42:10 GMT -8
The funny thing is, two of the bigger jobs he coveted were going to open up for him if he had just waited and finished the season out. Jonathan learned that his agent doesn't treat him nearly the same as coaches higher up the food chain. And I'm absolutely fine with that. I wonder if these "agents" are compensated like head hunters - you get paid when you place someone in a position. Or, are the just paid a salary, or both? Pretty sure the agents get a straight cut of the salary. I suspect there's a lot of incentive for agents to get their clients to the next bigger and better deal.
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Post by beavadelic on Feb 9, 2024 12:02:41 GMT -8
I was more referring to the shade that Bray threw at milk maid. And I can understand Bray flying to East landfill.....never turn down an opp until you've thoroughly vetted it. Thing is, I'm pretty sure Bray could've done better than milk maids DC......I mean he DID do better, but even if he didn't land the OSU HC job, I bet there would've been plenty others pursuing, at least for DC. I just didn't get the feeling Bray has a lot of respect for milk maid, especially after how he left. Specifically what shade...what is the context? Smith gave him the opportunity to be where he is now, no? I dont think Bray us HC of OSU right now if Smith didnt elevate him to DC a few years ago. I agree Bray would have probably landed a better DC job...which MSU is. Bird in the hand. I already mentioned USC. Maybe even the San Jose State HC job after Brennan moved on. He claims he couldn't get on that plane...after Barnes asked him not to go. Kinda easy to say after you are hired as HC. I guess I'm not believing all the hype and fluff about some sort of dedication to OSU and how this is his dream job. We heard the same thing about Smith. Coaching is a business, these guys have massive egos and aspirations too. Riley moved on. Erickson moved on. Smith moved on. Real good chance Bray moves on at some point if he has similar success. And...like Smith, if and when that happens I'll keep rooting for Bray to succeed. Likewise...if Bray is delivering 2, 3, 4 win seasons 3 to 4 years down the line. We'll see how dedicated Oregon State, and more specifically the fan base, is to Bray No “maybe” about Bray being the DC at USC if we didn’t keep him here as HC. Bray was Riley’s choice. Lord knows USC has got to do something different on D. It might have been fun for Trent to put together the defensive schemes and watch his players stuff Smith’s offense had he not gotten the HC job. Nobody is saying Smith is Satan or that Bray is a lock to succeed. However, anyone who is remotely objective about the way that Smith handled this has to admit that it was awkward and poorly handled. Likewise, it’s hard to imagine a better move by Barnes in the moment than to hire Bray. The aftermath of that hire has resulted in a lot of encouragement and hope. It is clear that Bray is one of the most highly-respected, up and coming defensive minds in college football.
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zzufrevaeb
Sophomore
Not beaverfuzz
hi
Posts: 1,500
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Feb 9, 2024 13:02:24 GMT -8
Actually quite a few people are calling Smith Satan. lol
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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 9, 2024 13:06:21 GMT -8
The funny thing is, two of the bigger jobs he coveted were going to open up for him if he had just waited and finished the season out. Jonathan learned that his agent doesn't treat him nearly the same as coaches higher up the food chain. And I'm absolutely fine with that. It has to burn him that UCLA is 100% open in the next season and I am here for that pain. and USC has pretty strong odds in the next season or two. AND... Chip just resigned. Big oof. I guess in the end, maybe this is better? we got resettled early and could salvage recruiting. I think there are strong odds that if Smith stayed, he'd now leave us for UCLA.
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Post by wetrodentia on Feb 9, 2024 14:03:48 GMT -8
Actually quite a few people are calling Smith Satan. lol Just calling it like we (I believe a majority) see it. When you misjudge someone you trusted to have shared principles it's disappointing, and when that person demonstrates disregard for something you cherish and thought they, of all people cherished even more, you feel betrayed. Hence the deserved passionate criticism for his actions and apparent disregard for his alma mater. niner doesn't have the passion for OSU that most fans do, and it's perplexing because you would think he would have way more. I was the guy 20 years ago when he was at Montana as a QB coach(?) telling everyone he would be our coach some day, and when he got here I thought (and said) we were set for a long time. PIssed at myself for being a rube. I'll get over it eventually, but It vexes me. I'm terribly vexed.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 9, 2024 14:11:27 GMT -8
It has to burn him that UCLA is 100% open in the next season and I am here for that pain. and USC has pretty strong odds in the next season or two. AND... Chip just resigned. Big oof. I guess in the end, maybe this is better? we got resettled early and could salvage recruiting. I think there are strong odds that if Smith stayed, he'd now leave us for UCLA. Word on the street... Kelly wanted to go to OSU at season's end.... but Bray didn't hire him and he had to settle for T-OSU
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Post by Werebeaver on Feb 9, 2024 14:47:25 GMT -8
I was more referring to the shade that Bray threw at milk maid. And I can understand Bray flying to East landfill.....never turn down an opp until you've thoroughly vetted it. Thing is, I'm pretty sure Bray could've done better than milk maids DC......I mean he DID do better, but even if he didn't land the OSU HC job, I bet there would've been plenty others pursuing, at least for DC. I just didn't get the feeling Bray has a lot of respect for milk maid, especially after how he left. Specifically what shade...what is the context? Smith gave him the opportunity to be where he is now, no? I dont think Bray us HC of OSU right now if Smith didnt elevate him to DC a few years ago. I agree Bray would have probably landed a better DC job...which MSU is. Bird in the hand. I already mentioned USC. Maybe even the San Jose State HC job after Brennan moved on. He claims he couldn't get on that plane...after Barnes asked him not to go. Kinda easy to say after you are hired as HC. I guess I'm not believing all the hype and fluff about some sort of dedication to OSU and how this is his dream job. We heard the same thing about Smith. Coaching is a business, these guys have massive egos and aspirations too. Riley moved on. Erickson moved on. Smith moved on. Real good chance Bray moves on at some point if he has similar success. And...like Smith, if and when that happens I'll keep rooting for Bray to succeed. Likewise...if Bray is delivering 2, 3, 4 win seasons 3 to 4 years down the line. We'll see how dedicated Oregon State, and more specifically the fan base, is to Bray Well said. I still admire what Smith accomplished as a player and coach at OSU. More than I ever have or will do for OSU. I dare say more than anyone on this board ever has or will contribute to OSU. I acknowledge that may not be a popular opinion. So be it.
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Post by bleedorange21 on Feb 9, 2024 15:04:55 GMT -8
Anyone else excited to see Bray on the sideline as HC firing up players and actually arguing calls? Bray has all of the intangibles that smith lacked. If his staff can do their jobs I think they’ll be successful. Obviously the biggest question mark going forward into the season is the offense. That’s where the guys really need to come through for Bray.
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 9, 2024 15:22:48 GMT -8
Specifically what shade...what is the context? Smith gave him the opportunity to be where he is now, no? I dont think Bray us HC of OSU right now if Smith didnt elevate him to DC a few years ago. I agree Bray would have probably landed a better DC job...which MSU is. Bird in the hand. I already mentioned USC. Maybe even the San Jose State HC job after Brennan moved on. He claims he couldn't get on that plane...after Barnes asked him not to go. Kinda easy to say after you are hired as HC. I guess I'm not believing all the hype and fluff about some sort of dedication to OSU and how this is his dream job. We heard the same thing about Smith. Coaching is a business, these guys have massive egos and aspirations too. Riley moved on. Erickson moved on. Smith moved on. Real good chance Bray moves on at some point if he has similar success. And...like Smith, if and when that happens I'll keep rooting for Bray to succeed. Likewise...if Bray is delivering 2, 3, 4 win seasons 3 to 4 years down the line. We'll see how dedicated Oregon State, and more specifically the fan base, is to Bray Well said. I still admire what Smith accomplished as a player and coach at OSU. More than I ever have or will do for OSU. I dare say more than anyone on this board ever has or will contribute to OSU. I acknowledge that may not be a popular opinion. So be it. What is funny is that people here blame Smith for their perception of him. To my recollection he never said this was his last job. Alum or not, it doesn't change the general character of the coaching profession. Ego, bigger challenges, higher profile conference/team, larger paycheck is the norm. On one hand folks want to say he wasn't a "special" person, yet thought he should have acted that way. He fooled people because that was their perception. It was the fan base that chose to label him a certain way. In today's athletics that's on the fan base. They should know better. JS wasn't some atypical HC. He was/is his like the rest. As far as Trent... folks are posting the same sh&t they did when Smith was hired. They, and certainly we, have no idea what the future holds. If JS had averaged 3 wins over 5 years fans would have been seeking a new HC, alum or not. If Bray gets some lucrative NFL assistant or high profile college offer who knows?! Many of the aspects that folks said would keep Smith here don't apply to Bray. Alum? Yes. But, he has zero family to consider in terms of where is safe and the best environment. He's highly competitive and football focused. After some time those types seek new challenges. Bottom line, coaches have little loyalty in most cases. Challenge, level of competition, type of program, colleagues, money, etc play a factor. Bray may be different from Smith in many ways, but he's still in the coaching profession. And, current fan perception isn't who he really is. No one knows who he really is when it comes to future decisions. JS left. It was going to happen eventually. How he left was clumsy and unprofessional. But, that's who he really is as a person. If fans had other thoughts thats on them.
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Post by lavrentyyb on Feb 9, 2024 15:37:35 GMT -8
Well said. I still admire what Smith accomplished as a player and coach at OSU. More than I ever have or will do for OSU. I dare say more than anyone on this board ever has or will contribute to OSU. I acknowledge that may not be a popular opinion. So be it. What is funny is that people here blame Smith for their perception of him. To my recollection he never said this was his last job. Alum or not, it doesn't change the general character of the coaching profession. Ego, bigger challenges, higher profile conference/team, larger paycheck is the norm. On one hand folks want to say he wasn't a "special" person, yet thought he should have acted that way. He fooled people because that was their perception. It was the fan base that chose to label him a certain way. In today's athletics that's on the fan base. They should know better. JS wasn't some atypical HC. He was/is his like the rest. As far as Trent... folks are posting the same sh&t they did when Smith was hired. They, and certainly we, have no idea what the future holds. If JS had averaged 3 wins over 5 years fans would have been seeking a new HC, alum or not. If Bray gets some lucrative NFL assistant or high profile college offer who knows?! Many of the aspects that folks said would keep Smith here don't apply to Bray. Alum? Yes. But, he has zero family to consider in terms of where is safe and the best environment. He's highly competitive and football focused. After some time those types seek new challenges. Bottom line, coaches have little loyalty in most cases. Challenge, level of competition, type of program, colleagues, money, etc so play a factor. Bray may be different from Smith in many ways, but he's still in the coaching profession. And, current fan perception isn't who he really is. No one knows who he really is when it comes to future decisions. JS left. It was going to happen eventually. How he left was clumsy and unprofessional. But, that's who he really is as a person. If fans had other thoughts thats in them. Great post, Sybil.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Feb 9, 2024 15:37:50 GMT -8
Specifically what shade...what is the context? Smith gave him the opportunity to be where he is now, no? I dont think Bray us HC of OSU right now if Smith didnt elevate him to DC a few years ago. I agree Bray would have probably landed a better DC job...which MSU is. Bird in the hand. I already mentioned USC. Maybe even the San Jose State HC job after Brennan moved on. He claims he couldn't get on that plane...after Barnes asked him not to go. Kinda easy to say after you are hired as HC. I guess I'm not believing all the hype and fluff about some sort of dedication to OSU and how this is his dream job. We heard the same thing about Smith. Coaching is a business, these guys have massive egos and aspirations too. Riley moved on. Erickson moved on. Smith moved on. Real good chance Bray moves on at some point if he has similar success. And...like Smith, if and when that happens I'll keep rooting for Bray to succeed. Likewise...if Bray is delivering 2, 3, 4 win seasons 3 to 4 years down the line. We'll see how dedicated Oregon State, and more specifically the fan base, is to Bray No “maybe” about Bray being the DC at USC if we didn’t keep him here as HC. Bray was Riley’s choice. Lord knows USC has got to do something different on D. It might have been fun for Trent to put together the defensive schemes and watch his players stuff Smith’s offense had he not gotten the HC job. Nobody is saying Smith is Satan or that Bray is a lock to succeed. However, anyone who is remotely objective about the way that Smith handled this has to admit that it was awkward and poorly handled. Likewise, it’s hard to imagine a better move by Barnes in the moment than to hire Bray. The aftermath of that hire has resulted in a lot of encouragement and hope. It is clear that Bray is one of the most highly-respected, up and coming defensive minds in college football. Don't disagree with any of that
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