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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 3, 2020 22:07:06 GMT -8
I get it. It was sarcasm. Sorry. I know it was. It was actually directed at "atown" and I quoted you both (on that subject). I too, was being flippant...
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Post by beavs6 on Jun 4, 2020 5:07:09 GMT -8
Hydroxychloroquine has been rejected. The data isn't there to justify further study. The data AREN'T AREN'T ARE NOT ARE NOT ARE NOT! They (the data) AREN'T! (just don't do it again.) "Jun 2, 2020 at 9:32pm alwaysorange said: When governor Brown goes after the protesters that are not social distancing than she can mess with osu football. Until then she can shove it. It's T-H-E-N not T-H-A-N. THEN THEN THEN THEN THEN THEN THEN THEN THEN THEN THEN THEN" Am I the only person that chuckled at this? Same thread 2 pages apart. Well done fishwrapper!
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Post by TheGlove on Jun 4, 2020 6:31:30 GMT -8
Bulls%#t. It's criminal opportunism. Disagree.
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Post by TheGlove on Jun 4, 2020 6:33:18 GMT -8
I would like you to cite me one time, just one, single, solitary time in all of US history significant social change came through peaceful protest. Heck, moderate social change hasn't even come through peaceful protest. Do you know why? because when people peacefully protest they are ignored. Peaceful protest does not work, it has never worked and it never will. Change only happens when it becomes impossible to ignore. when you cannot quell the rebellion or you cannot afford not to. When the powers that be finally deem it financially prudent to change, that is when change happens. What BS! I'm sure thousands of business owners, of every skin tone, totally agree. So, prove any "significant social change" that came from violence and destruction? Yeah, cuz there is no direct connection. Peaceful assembly is the right afforded citizens. Rioting is a criminal act. Violence and destruction diminishes any cause. Voting and education are opportunities for real change that few take seriously. Post your address and maybe we could get some rioters to head over to enhance social change. Disagree
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Post by ag87 on Jun 4, 2020 7:44:19 GMT -8
I would like you to cite me one time, just one, single, solitary time in all of US history significant social change came through peaceful protest. Heck, moderate social change hasn't even come through peaceful protest. Do you know why? because when people peacefully protest they are ignored. Peaceful protest does not work, it has never worked and it never will. Change only happens when it becomes impossible to ignore. when you cannot quell the rebellion or you cannot afford not to. When the powers that be finally deem it financially prudent to change, that is when change happens. What BS! I'm sure thousands of business owners, of every skin tone, totally agree. So, prove any "significant social change" that came from violence and destruction? Yeah, cuz there is no direct connection. Peaceful assembly is the right afforded citizens. Rioting is a criminal act. Violence and destruction diminishes any cause. Voting and education are opportunities for real change that few take seriously. Post your address and maybe we could get some rioters to head over to enhance social change. Sam Adams and Paul Revere disagree with you.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 4, 2020 7:57:05 GMT -8
I would like you to cite me one time, just one, single, solitary time in all of US history significant social change came through peaceful protest. Heck, moderate social change hasn't even come through peaceful protest. Do you know why? because when people peacefully protest they are ignored. Peaceful protest does not work, it has never worked and it never will. Change only happens when it becomes impossible to ignore. when you cannot quell the rebellion or you cannot afford not to. When the powers that be finally deem it financially prudent to change, that is when change happens. What BS! I'm sure thousands of business owners, of every skin tone, totally agree. So, prove any "significant social change" that came from violence and destruction? Yeah, cuz there is no direct connection. Peaceful assembly is the right afforded citizens. Rioting is a criminal act. Violence and destruction diminishes any cause. Voting and education are opportunities for real change that few take seriously. Post your address and maybe we could get some rioters to head over to enhance social change. Noting that social change has never come from peaceful protest is not applauding the violence. It is sad commentary on how people are forced to make change. So what you are saying is all the Black community had to do this entire time was vote? makes sense. I'll let them know. I am sure they will get right on it as soon as they find the polling stations that magically do not appear anywhere near where they live... I think at the end of the day, what you need to ask you self is why you care more about some businesses being wrecked than you care about the widespread, long term, systematic oppression of over 42 million of your fellow Americans? Also, as an FYI, you should look into why we have the right to peacefully protest and how the constitution was written. Hint, it came from not one, but two riots... just... just sayin'
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Jun 4, 2020 10:13:39 GMT -8
I think we are all in agreement that a certain former "officer" in the Minneapolis PD has THE MOST PUNCHABLE FACE in the country!!
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 4, 2020 10:29:13 GMT -8
Noting that social change has never come from peaceful protest is not applauding the violence. It is sad commentary on how people are forced to make change. So what you are saying is all the Black community had to do this entire time was vote? makes sense. I'll let them know. I am sure they will get right on it as soon as they find the polling stations that magically do not appear anywhere near where they live... I think at the end of the day, what you need to ask you self is why you care more about some businesses being wrecked than you care about the widespread, long term, systematic oppression of over 42 million of your fellow Americans? Also, as an FYI, you should look into why we have the right to peacefully protest and how the constitution was written. Hint, it came from not one, but two riots... just... just sayin' Ha, cuz it's the 1700s!? Because we are not now a sovereign nation? The issue involved and protest equates to British rule of that time? Wow... fabricate connections much? So, the right to bear arms and armed insurrection is ok too, I mean it's in the Constitution and how we got to where we are today. You have to love people who fall back on 2, 300 years ago to prove a point. So, back to your initial post before you tried to change the topic. You then can't answer the question you asked? Got it. Stating peaceful protests are ignored and didn't bring social change is indeed promoting the violence that is happening. Especially in the discourse of this thread. But, then again your stream of intelligent thought seems very egocentric. My examples of businesses/livelihoods and lifelong work being destroyed is somehow connected to supporting oppression. Yet your your comments don't insinuate violence is the way to be noticed? By the way, education and voting as a method (not the only) of change were the words from Mr. Floyd's brother. I'll stick with him and the mass majority that don't take your shallow viewpoint. And, just in case you still have time to post while on the job (in Salem?) the abhorrence of the violence seen is not an acceptance of racism. Nor is it ignoring the problem. The often cited MLK 1967/68 "the Other America" speech, in full context, may help you to see the light?! In these two speeches he echoes the need for better living conditions for blacks, not just the technicality of legal equality. King didn’t defend or condone rioters but stated that there was understandable anger underlying their actions. Understand not condone or hide behind some fabricated constitutional/historical nonsense. Again, I'll go with MLK. And, as multiple sources report many of those perpetuating the violence and destruction have little to do with the actual protest. This grievance offense has just provided the horrible underbelly of society another platform to use. As stated it diminishes the real focus of the protests. It allows the focus to be on the violence. It now creates "blame" on multiple parties. It obscures and confuses the need for the continued efforts to have society evolve. Okay Baseball... "But at the same time, it is as necessary for me to be as vigorous in condemning the conditions which cause persons to feel that they must engage in riotous activities as it is for me to condemn riots. I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention." At no point did I condone violence. I explained it. The thesis of MLK's speech below is the same thesis I present in this thread. Riot is a function of society not listening. It doesn't make it good, it doesn't make it right. It makes it the inevitable end result that finally triggers change. Riot comes because years of cries for change have gone unanswered. the peaceful protests have failed. And, in the ultimate irony, some 60 years after MLK gave this speech, basically absolutely nothing has changed. "the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity." Read that again. and again. and again. It is as true today as it was in 1967. The Baltimore riots and other similar rights in 67/68 and the ensuing riots after his assassination DID lead to change. It passed the fair housing act, making it technically illegal to discriminate in lending or renting based on, among other things, race. We know it is pervasive to this day, but a now a legal remedy exists. Empathizing with a riot is not the same as condoning it. Asking you when peaceful protest has ever affected significant social change is not condoning it. It is further defending the notion that it is what it seems to take for anything to happen. "And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity." And some posters on this board are more concerned with the plight of the shop owner, than the livelihood of 40+ million Americans. again for emphasis "And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity." What do you think is the result of telling NFL players that peacefully took a knee that they were "sons of bitches"? Why is it heartbreaking to see masses rioting in the streets causing damage and vandalism, that in many cases can be cleaned, repaired, replaced or have insurance cover, but not heartbreaking to see the conditions that exist in the black community? Being more outraged at a riot than at the causes of the riot is everything MLK is talking about.
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Post by TheGlove on Jun 4, 2020 10:58:55 GMT -8
And here endth the lesson.
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Post by beaverstever on Jun 5, 2020 9:37:56 GMT -8
This post has gotten very political, but I'll let it ride for now (other mods may not), as there's not a lot else to talk about, and it impacts OSU sports in all fronts.
I'll just say that I'll encourage all of you to diversify your information fronts, keep an open mind towards differing opinions and experiences, and assume you have yet much to learn. Having grown up in southern Oregon, I have had much to both learn and unlearn from the limited perspectives and understanding that where available in my local community.
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