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Post by lebaneaver on Jul 6, 2020 18:52:52 GMT -8
Well, again with the folks that think I’m stupid, but I went there and that definition was absent. I can post them all tomorrow if you wish. I went to the end, which was lengthy. I sure as HELL don’t think you’re stupid, Spud. Far from it.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 18:53:25 GMT -8
I'm not a right-winger. Thanks, though.
You're the perfect example of who I was referencing.
You’re not a right-winger, and I’m Elvis. I thought you were dead! I’ve been to your house!
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 19:04:17 GMT -8
No, idiot. I'm simply saying being "white" in and of itself does not give you "privilege" simply because you are in the majority population-wise. And when people refer to this "white privilege" narrative, that's how it's portrayed. If you are poor and white you aren't any more "privileged" than if you are poor and black (or simply black and less poor, either one). Next, you will tell me how LBJ wasn't one of the biggest racists there was (Mr. "Great Society"). Why it most certainly does. Privilege doesn't mean you don't have to work hard for what you have. And it doesn't mean that everything will be easy for you.
A white person in a society built for white people on the backs of African slaves, Chinese slaves, and Mexican (essentially) slaves has more social advantage than any of the other groups.
It really is unfortunate that you cannot step out of your skin for a day and see what happens on a daily basis, albeit subtly. Walking down the street, you move to the other side because you notice two or three black men with hoodies coming toward you. Why? Fear. Why? News reports, movies, society. That's racism right there. Driving to work in the morning, you see the Hispanics working in the field. You know that they are illegal. You know that they get underpaid. You know that they have no way to enter into society, yet they slave in the fields to keep the price of your tomatoes down. And who benefits? Yup. The farmer. That's your white privilege driving you to work in your office in the city. On your drive in to town, you know your car has a busted taillight that you've been meaning to get fixed. When the cop pulls you over, you explain it to him and drive off with a warning. He didn't search your vehicle. He didn't have his hand on his weapon when he approached your car. That's privilege. You walk into a 7-11 or the equivalent to buy some cigarettes. You give the clerk a 20 dollar bill. When she checks it, it's fake. (Let's be honest, she probably wouldn't even check your $20 bill.) Does she call the cops? Nope. That's privilege.
You have never had to fight for the right to vote. You have never had to fight for equal pay. You have never had to fight for the right to drink from the same water fountain or sit in the front of the bus.
That's privilege. That's the difference, man. You were born with all you need to succeed or fail.
The larger point is it is not the simple majority that creates the privilege. "White Privilege" does not exist because America has more white people. It exists because white people built America, and built systems that favor white people. It has slowly been unraveling over time. But we all need to stop and appreciate the civil rights act was not quite 60 years ago. It happened in my Dad's lifetime. It happened, on average, 2 generations ago. Parents of teenagers and young adults today (me), have boomer parents that lived in a legal segregated America. If you are my Dad's age you were a teenager when the civil rights act passed... America didn't change with a pen stroke. It simply boggles my mind people want to fight this notion. Like, nobody questions slavery. It was a fact. nobody questions Chinese labor. Nobody questions the trail of tears. facts. Hell, the Puritans that founded America were so f%#*in' uppity they oppressed Irish and Italians as well as "lower class" for years. The entirety of semi-modern Boston was built on indentured Irish and Italians! It took nearly 100 years of America being a country to free slaves. 150 years into being a country our own supreme court legalized "separate but equal" in Plessy v. Feurgeson. it took over 50 years to strike that down and the inbetween fostered an era where Jim Crow (both the actor and all the laws named in his dubious honor) ran rampant. Everybody accepts these things happen. we all learn them, we all know them. But for some reason everybody thinks that some 250 years, not even counting colonial America, of built in oppression and racism just simply vanished overnight in 1964. Like it is an absolutely absurd notion that a mere 56 years later, there are remaining remnants of old racist laws and systems. That people that were bullied or oppressed or abused as youngsters in the 1950s and 1960s are alive today, and their kids are were the first generation of black Americans to be "equal", but somehow there is no possible way ANY existing thoughts or feelings or policies or actions could be floating around today... That right now White America is looking at the black community, barely one generation out of legal segregation, living in squalor in the ghettos it built and asking them what their problem is, why can't they succeed? "Make better choices". Yeah, thanks for the pro tip fellas. f%#*in' bulls%#t man. I just don't get it. it isn't a hard concept to wrap your brain around.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 19:07:14 GMT -8
What you wrote above can apply to anyone/everyone who's not wealthy and also depending on the location they live (among about 20 other factors you didn't address).
^^^ Is that your idea of "white privilege"? ^^^
Did you have an actual point?
So you believe that if you are black, you can live anywhere you can afford in the US? The town I grew up in in OR was considered a 'sundown' town, even during my lifetime, and I'm not old. There were no black kids in my school, even in the early 90s, and it wasn't because it was expensive. I'm assume you don't believe white privilege exists ... so what is your definition of it? That reminded me of a story. I went to high school in a farm town in SW Idaho. We had one black person in our 3 year school of about 750. Her name was Troy Beyer. She was awesome. She got voted as a cheerleader. She went to the prom with my best friend. He was the most eligible dude in the school. We had a ball. In other words, there was zero discrimination. She went on to Hollywood. Ended up playing a role in the Dynasty series! Big time. Lots of other parts too. She came out in an interview talking about how she had to fight discrimination growing up in an all white town. What a load of horse crap! She was so popular. We were all disappointed and confused as to why she would say that. So she grew up in that down, against all odds, and made it big. It’s up to the individual really. See Ben Carson. It can be done. Harder? You bet! Possible? You bet!
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Post by beaverstever on Jul 6, 2020 19:44:03 GMT -8
So you believe that if you are black, you can live anywhere you can afford in the US? The town I grew up in in OR was considered a 'sundown' town, even during my lifetime, and I'm not old. There were no black kids in my school, even in the early 90s, and it wasn't because it was expensive. I'm assume you don't believe white privilege exists ... so what is your definition of it? That reminded me of a story. I went to high school in a farm town in SW Idaho. We had one black person in our 3 year school of about 750. Her name was Troy Beyer. She was awesome. She got voted as a cheerleader. She went to the prom with my best friend. He was the most eligible dude in the school. We had a ball. In other words, there was zero discrimination. She went on to Hollywood. Ended up playing a role in the Dynasty series! Big time. Lots of other parts too. She came out in an interview talking about how she had to fight discrimination growing up in an all white town. What a load of horse crap! She was so popular. We were all disappointed and confused as to why she would say that. So she grew up in that down, against all odds, and made it big. It’s up to the individual really. See Ben Carson. It can be done. Harder? You bet! Possible? You bet! I'm not sure why you don't believe being both popular and discriminated against can't co-exist. Sure, it didn't hold her back, but it doesn't mean it didn't exist. I can think of lots of small things that would have been problematic, and I have no experience to even reference these things. Do you think anybody in two know how to cut her hair? Do you think any local store carried hair products that worked well for her? Do you think nobody ever said something completely racist just out of simple ignorance on the meaning/history of the terms? Do you think it would be easy to not look like anybody else around you in general? I suggest taking her at face value that you didn't see all that was going on, and some hurtful things were pretty likely to have occurred, internally or not. Yes, it's possible she was manipulating a narrative to help her career, and unfortunately that happens as well, but surely you believe it's plausible (even likely) that she had some things thrown her way? After all, being a popular girl in HS in general will draw the darts, even when there's no race-related darts to throw.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 19:47:46 GMT -8
That reminded me of a story. I went to high school in a farm town in SW Idaho. We had one black person in our 3 year school of about 750. Her name was Troy Beyer. She was awesome. She got voted as a cheerleader. She went to the prom with my best friend. He was the most eligible dude in the school. We had a ball. In other words, there was zero discrimination. She went on to Hollywood. Ended up playing a role in the Dynasty series! Big time. Lots of other parts too. She came out in an interview talking about how she had to fight discrimination growing up in an all white town. What a load of horse crap! She was so popular. We were all disappointed and confused as to why she would say that. So she grew up in that down, against all odds, and made it big. It’s up to the individual really. See Ben Carson. It can be done. Harder? You bet! Possible? You bet! I'm not sure why you don't believe being both popular and discriminated against can't co-exist. Sure, it didn't hold her back, but it doesn't mean it didn't exist. I can think of lots of small things that would have been problematic, and I have no experience to even reference these things. Do you think anybody in two know how to cut her hair? Do you think any local store carried hair products that worked well for her? Do you think nobody ever said something completely racist just out of simple ignorance on the meaning/history of the terms? Do you think it would be easy to not look like anybody else around you in general? I suggest taking her at face value that you didn't see all that was going on, and some hurtful things were pretty likely to have occurred, internally or not. Yes, it's possible she was manipulating a narrative to help her career, and unfortunately that happens as well, but surely you believe it's plausible (even likely) that she had some things thrown her way? After all, being a popular girl in HS in general will draw the darts, even when there's no race-related darts to throw. I didn’t read past your first couple lines. The answer is, I was there every day. All day.
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Post by irimi on Jul 6, 2020 21:02:33 GMT -8
So you believe that if you are black, you can live anywhere you can afford in the US? The town I grew up in in OR was considered a 'sundown' town, even during my lifetime, and I'm not old. There were no black kids in my school, even in the early 90s, and it wasn't because it was expensive. I'm assume you don't believe white privilege exists ... so what is your definition of it? That reminded me of a story. I went to high school in a farm town in SW Idaho. We had one black person in our 3 year school of about 750. Her name was Troy Beyer. She was awesome. She got voted as a cheerleader. She went to the prom with my best friend. He was the most eligible dude in the school. We had a ball. In other words, there was zero discrimination. She went on to Hollywood. Ended up playing a role in the Dynasty series! Big time. Lots of other parts too. She came out in an interview talking about how she had to fight discrimination growing up in an all white town. What a load of horse crap! She was so popular. We were all disappointed and confused as to why she would say that. So she grew up in that down, against all odds, and made it big. It’s up to the individual really. See Ben Carson. It can be done. Harder? You bet! Possible? You bet! Granted, all I know is what you wrote here. Still, you seem to have only known her life at school, and she may well have faced discrimination outside of school in the rest of her life. It still must have hurt to have her call out your town like that, but it’s likely that you were not privy to those moments. Unfortunately, the bad moments stand out because they affect what we think of ourselves or how we think others see us.
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Post by beaver1989 on Jul 6, 2020 21:13:34 GMT -8
I'm bigoted and intolerant of a certain group of people.
They're white college educated liberals who live on the West Coast.
They're the most arrogant, condescending, prick, assholes , the American Union has ever produced.
My favorite forum to gain insight on them, is called "Quora.com". It's a hodgepodge of legitimate information + hate propaganda directed against groups, these experts deem responsible for destroying our country.
I'm comfortable "doing business" with working class people, no matter their race, gender, or religion. My attitude changes when dealing with aristocratic, credentialed , boneheads,who never listen but have all the answers. It's a flaw in my biological makeup, that I wish wasn't so, but probably won't change anytime soon.
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Post by irimi on Jul 6, 2020 21:29:46 GMT -8
It really is unfortunate that you cannot step out of your skin for a day and see what happens on a daily basis, albeit subtly. Walking down the street, you move to the other side because you notice two or three black men with hoodies coming toward you. Why? Fear. Why? News reports, movies, society. That's racism right there. What time of day am I walking down this street and where is it?
Your simplistic generalizations (as well as your assumptions) are your own cross to bear for your "white guilt."
I notice you didn't even touch on LBJ in that screed. Why not?
By implying that certain areas are more dangerous than others, you acknowledge bad areas exist. Now look into why they exist. Harlem. Watts. South Chicago.
I have no white guilt. I know for a fact that this world is far better for the multitude of colors and peoples, their cultures, their religions, their lives. So I do not speak or act out of guilt, but out of hope for a better world and out of wisdom.
(I know that the previous comment will get a reaction from you, and I'm sorry for it. I suspect you will turn toward your "facts" and say that I am ignorant because you have the facts. There is only one fact that matters in all of this for me: Love your fellow man as yourself. If you hear him cry out, why do you turn a deaf ear? Why do you need "facts" to justify your stance when your brother is in pain? Is it perhaps to ease your conscience?)
Your comment about LBJ was not directed at me but someone else, and since I have no interest in him, I said nothing.
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Post by irimi on Jul 6, 2020 21:33:01 GMT -8
I'm bigoted and intolerant of a certain group of people. They're white college educated liberals who live on the West Coast. They're the most arrogant, condescending, prick, assholes , the American Union has ever produced. My favorite forum to gain insight on them, is called "Quora.com". It's a hodgepodge of legitimate information + hate propaganda directed against groups, these experts deem responsible for destroying our country. I'm comfortable "doing business" with working class people, no matter their race, gender, or religion. My attitude changes when dealing with aristocratic, credentialed , boneheads,who never listen but have all the answers. It's a flaw in my biological makeup, that I wish wasn't so, but probably won't change anytime soon.
So now college educated is a pejorative. LOL!
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Post by ag87 on Jul 6, 2020 21:41:03 GMT -8
So you believe that if you are black, you can live anywhere you can afford in the US? The town I grew up in in OR was considered a 'sundown' town, even during my lifetime, and I'm not old. There were no black kids in my school, even in the early 90s, and it wasn't because it was expensive. I'm assume you don't believe white privilege exists ... so what is your definition of it? That reminded me of a story. I went to high school in a farm town in SW Idaho. We had one black person in our 3 year school of about 750. Her name was Troy Beyer. She was awesome. She got voted as a cheerleader. She went to the prom with my best friend. He was the most eligible dude in the school. We had a ball. In other words, there was zero discrimination. She went on to Hollywood. Ended up playing a role in the Dynasty series! Big time. Lots of other parts too. She came out in an interview talking about how she had to fight discrimination growing up in an all white town. What a load of horse crap! She was so popular. We were all disappointed and confused as to why she would say that. So she grew up in that down, against all odds, and made it big. It’s up to the individual really. See Ben Carson. It can be done. Harder? You bet! Possible? You bet! I just looked her up. She did not have it easy. Drug-addict mom and abused by step-father. Bounced to some foster homes and then finally lived with her biologic dad in Idaho. She was on the cast of Sesame Street as a small child in NYC. Plus she is bi-racial. In Idaho she probably was thought of as black and elsewhere as white.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 22:07:56 GMT -8
What time of day am I walking down this street and where is it?
Your simplistic generalizations (as well as your assumptions) are your own cross to bear for your "white guilt."
I notice you didn't even touch on LBJ in that screed. Why not?
By implying that certain areas are more dangerous than others, you acknowledge bad areas exist. Now look into why they exist. Harlem. Watts. South Chicago.
I have no white guilt. I know for a fact that this world is far better for the multitude of colors and peoples, their cultures, their religions, their lives. So I do not speak or act out of guilt, but out of hope for a better world and out of wisdom.
(I know that the previous comment will get a reaction from you, and I'm sorry for it. I suspect you will turn toward your "facts" and say that I am ignorant because you have the facts. There is only one fact that matters in all of this for me: Love your fellow man as yourself. If you hear him cry out, why do you turn a deaf ear? Why do you need "facts" to justify your stance when your brother is in pain? Is it perhaps to ease your conscience?)
Your comment about LBJ was not directed at me but someone else, and since I have no interest in him, I said nothing. It was directed at me, and he is trying to make the point the president that signed the civil rights act was really a racist... he isn't wrong. He was more or less quoted in saying he "I'll have those N-words voting democrat for 200 years" when talking about the civil rights act. Another famous unproven, but likely given LBJ's history was "These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don’t move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there’ll be no way of stopping them, we’ll lose the filibuster and there’ll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It’ll be Reconstruction all over again" More or less painting the picture the civil rights act was a matter of pragmatism for him, not altruism or moral correctness. It stands to reason too, as the original bill had glaring omissions that had to be corrected in later years. He was also an extreme womanizer (probably learned from the best in JFK) and was reputed to have a monster dong (hence the term "Johnson" for your penis) not only was he reputed to have a huge member but he like to show it to everyone, with our without permission. So, you know, mix in some sexual assault with your racism.
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Post by ee1990 on Jul 6, 2020 22:18:21 GMT -8
So you believe that if you are black, you can live anywhere you can afford in the US? The town I grew up in in OR was considered a 'sundown' town, even during my lifetime, and I'm not old. There were no black kids in my school, even in the early 90s, and it wasn't because it was expensive. I'm assume you don't believe white privilege exists ... so what is your definition of it? That reminded me of a story. I went to high school in a farm town in SW Idaho. We had one black person in our 3 year school of about 750. Her name was Troy Beyer. She was awesome. She got voted as a cheerleader. She went to the prom with my best friend. He was the most eligible dude in the school. We had a ball. In other words, there was zero discrimination. She went on to Hollywood. Ended up playing a role in the Dynasty series! Big time. Lots of other parts too. She came out in an interview talking about how she had to fight discrimination growing up in an all white town. What a load of horse crap! She was so popular. We were all disappointed and confused as to why she would say that. So she grew up in that down, against all odds, and made it big. It’s up to the individual really. See Ben Carson. It can be done. Harder? You bet! Possible? You bet! ffs She was successful and therefore could not have been discriminated against? THAT is your logic? This exact post is why we have so many issues. Get a f%#*ing clue.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 7, 2020 5:51:29 GMT -8
That reminded me of a story. I went to high school in a farm town in SW Idaho. We had one black person in our 3 year school of about 750. Her name was Troy Beyer. She was awesome. She got voted as a cheerleader. She went to the prom with my best friend. He was the most eligible dude in the school. We had a ball. In other words, there was zero discrimination. She went on to Hollywood. Ended up playing a role in the Dynasty series! Big time. Lots of other parts too. She came out in an interview talking about how she had to fight discrimination growing up in an all white town. What a load of horse crap! She was so popular. We were all disappointed and confused as to why she would say that. So she grew up in that down, against all odds, and made it big. It’s up to the individual really. See Ben Carson. It can be done. Harder? You bet! Possible? You bet! ffs She was successful and therefore could not have been discriminated against? THAT is your logic? This exact post is why we have so many issues. Get a f%#*ing clue. No, you need the clue. I was around her every day when she later talked about how terribly she was discriminated against. She wasn’t.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 7, 2020 6:44:23 GMT -8
By implying that certain areas are more dangerous than others, you acknowledge bad areas exist. Now look into why they exist. Harlem. Watts. South Chicago.
I have no white guilt. I know for a fact that this world is far better for the multitude of colors and peoples, their cultures, their religions, their lives. So I do not speak or act out of guilt, but out of hope for a better world and out of wisdom.
(I know that the previous comment will get a reaction from you, and I'm sorry for it. I suspect you will turn toward your "facts" and say that I am ignorant because you have the facts. There is only one fact that matters in all of this for me: Love your fellow man as yourself. If you hear him cry out, why do you turn a deaf ear? Why do you need "facts" to justify your stance when your brother is in pain? Is it perhaps to ease your conscience?)
Your comment about LBJ was not directed at me but someone else, and since I have no interest in him, I said nothing. It was directed at me, and he is trying to make the point the president that signed the civil rights act was really a racist... he isn't wrong. He was more or less quoted in saying he "I'll have those N-words voting democrat for 200 years" when talking about the civil rights act. Another famous unproven, but likely given LBJ's history was "These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don’t move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there’ll be no way of stopping them, we’ll lose the filibuster and there’ll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It’ll be Reconstruction all over again" More or less painting the picture the civil rights act was a matter of pragmatism for him, not altruism or moral correctness. It stands to reason too, as the original bill had glaring omissions that had to be corrected in later years. He was also an extreme womanizer (probably learned from the best in JFK) and was reputed to have a monster dong (hence the term "Johnson" for your penis) not only was he reputed to have a huge member but he like to show it to everyone, with our without permission. So, you know, mix in some sexual assault with your racism. I don’t know, man. I find the fact that you know so much about LBJ’s unit a bit troubling!! Ha ha
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