|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 29, 2023 14:20:11 GMT -8
You are correct on that, I guess I'm kind of blending eras. After that build Riley had a stretch of good seasons with pretty much a full Reser, from what I understand that was largely spent on the other programs, Riley and staff were still paid on the low side, further expansion was tabled for the time. At any rate, we've had successfull periods of time where the football program did not enjoy the financial benefit of their success as far as reinvestment in the program. You cannot look at it in a vacuum, while our program investment was sitting relatively still post east side remodel, other teams in the Pac were spending heavily. It's sort of an arms race, and if OSU doesn't invest like the other guys it's kind of unreasonable to expect to stay at or near the top of the league. Riley's hire by NU was kind of a huge wake-up call. They have been really investing in football since, basketball not so much. What would have been accomplished by paying Riley and his staff more? Would he have sucked less most of the last few years of his tenure here? Him going to Nebraska and taking most of the same underperforming coaches with him that he had at OSU proved that his ability to build a strong staff at OSU wasn't hamstrung by salary limitations. It was hamstrung by his own blind loyalty to coaches that weren't getting the job done. This wasn't a give Riley a raise post, it's an example of how cheap OSU was for a long long time. Erickson was hired at bottom basement pricing because Seattle was paying him. Riley wanted to be here, pretty sure he was a finalist at UCLA and maybe Alabama at the time, they both went different directions but he was seriously underpaid compared to the market rate. GA got market rate, probably didn't deserve it. Jonathan got hired at a VERY low salary, but they've come through for him BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY they're finishing the west side, which they have been talking about...just talking... since the East side went up. It wasn't just Riley and staff's salaries I'm talking about, that's one of many money issues. Back to basketball... there were people who were pissed we didn't hire Howland instead of Tinkle. For one I'm glad we didn't 'cause it seems he's a bit of a jerk, but we hired Tinkle for roughly a third of what Howland reportedly wanted. OSU was unwilling to pay market rate for a new hire at that time. Tinkle is now making a good salary, talking about raising it now is crazy talk. If they keep him and the team makes the tournament in the future it may not be at that time. What hasn't changed is OSU still has a low overall basketball budget and recruiting budget compared to other power 5 schools but many of our fans expect them to be routinely competing for the top of the conference...that's crazy talk too. If you invest the least, you should expect a mediocre return. I've seen a number of posts along the lines of "If they can do it (high rankings) at Gonzaga , it should happen here". Well guess what, our basketball budget might be 5 million-ish including coaching salaries, Few is now making less than Tinkle... but he gets a roughly 10 million buck basketball budget to work with. I don't know what it is they're spending it on but it seems to work well for them. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 29, 2023 14:27:21 GMT -8
You are correct on that, I guess I'm kind of blending eras. After that build Riley had a stretch of good seasons with pretty much a full Reser, from what I understand that was largely spent on the other programs, Riley and staff were still paid on the low side, further expansion was tabled for the time. At any rate, we've had successfull periods of time where the football program did not enjoy the financial benefit of their success as far as reinvestment in the program. You cannot look at it in a vacuum, while our program investment was sitting relatively still post east side remodel, other teams in the Pac were spending heavily. It's sort of an arms race, and if OSU doesn't invest like the other guys it's kind of unreasonable to expect to stay at or near the top of the league. Riley's hire by NU was kind of a huge wake-up call. They have been really investing in football since, basketball not so much. What would have been accomplished by paying Riley and his staff more? Would he have sucked less most of the last few years of his tenure here? Him going to Nebraska and taking most of the same underperforming coaches with him that he had at OSU proved that his ability to build a strong staff at OSU wasn't hamstrung by salary limitations. It was hamstrung by his own blind loyalty to coaches that weren't getting the job done. This wasn't a give Riley a raise post, it's an example of how cheap OSU was for a long long time. Erickson was hired at bottom basement pricing because Seattle was paying him. Riley wanted to be here, pretty sure he was a finalist at UCLA and maybe Alabama at the time, they both went different directions, but he was seriously underpaid here compared to the market rate. GA got market rate, probably didn't deserve it. Jonathan got hired at a VERY low salary, but they've come through for him BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY they're finishing the west side, which they have been talking about...just talking... since the East side went up. It wasn't just Riley and staff's salaries I'm talking about, that's one of many money issues. Back to basketball... there were people who were pissed we didn't hire Howland instead of Tinkle. For one I'm glad we didn't 'cause it seems he's a bit of a jerk, but we hired Tinkle for roughly a third of what Howland reportedly wanted. OSU was unwilling to pay market rate for a new hire at that time. Tinkle is now making a good salary, talking about raising it now is crazy talk. If they keep him and the team makes the tournament in the future it may not be at that time. What hasn't changed is OSU still has a low overall basketball budget and recruiting budget compared to other power 5 schools but may of our fans expect them to be routinely competing for the top of the conference...that's crazy talk too. I've seen a number of posts along the lines of "If they can do it at Gonzaga it should happen here". Well guess what, our basketball budget might be 5 million-ish including coaching salaries, Few is now making less than Tinkle... but he gets a roughly 10 million buck basketball budget to work with. I don't know what it is they're spending it on but it seems to work well for them. |
|
|
|
Post by beaver55to7 on Jan 29, 2023 16:35:37 GMT -8
If you want to understand what institutional support means all you have to do is look at Ernie Kent's record at uo vs WSU. At uo he is over 15 wins a season 9 out of 13 seasons, at WSU in five seasons he never reaches 14 wins in a season. Same coach different support. Pretty much all uo's football coaches have vastly underperformed their records at uo after they leave.
Where our football $$ went off the rails was building the south end zone cheap seats before rebuilding the north end zone and locker rooms. The south end zone did nothing for us, mostly empty cheap seats for years, where the money should have been spent first was on the locker room north end zone, something recruits could see. Then build the south end zone in anticipation of needing capacity during the west side rebuild. Being tight with recruiting budgets and assistants salaries did not help.
|
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Jan 29, 2023 16:52:57 GMT -8
If you want to understand what institutional support means all you have to do is look at Ernie Kent's record at uo vs WSU. At uo he is over 15 wins a season 9 out of 13 seasons, at WSU in five seasons he never reaches 14 wins in a season. Same coach different support. Pretty much all uo's football coaches have vastly underperformed their records at uo after they leave. Where our football $$ went off the rails was building the south end zone cheap seats before rebuilding the north end zone and locker rooms. The south end zone did nothing for us, mostly empty cheap seats for years, where the money should have been spent first was on the locker room north end zone, something recruits could see. Then build the south end zone in anticipation of needing capacity during the west side rebuild. Being tight with recruiting budgets and assistants salaries did not help. You’re sort of right with support, but you lost me on the end zone and locker room thing. We’re not losing recruits due to locker rooms. Corvallis is just not the happening place that recruits want to come to. Even Eugene has a lot more to offer than Corvallis. |
|
|
|
Post by beaver55to7 on Jan 29, 2023 17:14:54 GMT -8
If you want to understand what institutional support means all you have to do is look at Ernie Kent's record at uo vs WSU. At uo he is over 15 wins a season 9 out of 13 seasons, at WSU in five seasons he never reaches 14 wins in a season. Same coach different support. Pretty much all uo's football coaches have vastly underperformed their records at uo after they leave. Where our football $$ went off the rails was building the south end zone cheap seats before rebuilding the north end zone and locker rooms. The south end zone did nothing for us, mostly empty cheap seats for years, where the money should have been spent first was on the locker room north end zone, something recruits could see. Then build the south end zone in anticipation of needing capacity during the west side rebuild. Being tight with recruiting budgets and assistants salaries did not help. You’re sort of right with support, but you lost me on the end zone and locker room thing. We’re not losing recruits due to locker rooms. Corvallis is just not the happening place that recruits want to come to. Even Eugene has a lot more to offer than Corvallis. Victory through Valley ring a bell? In OSU’s words to help you out: “Recruiting – Brand and image are an extremely important part of the recruiting process. We recruit on a national level every year and strive to make sure that our brand and image is of the highest quality. We need the VFC to reflect that in every way so recruits see our dedication, commitment and investment in this program through our facilities. Competitiveness – To remain a competitive program and provide the best opportunity for success to our student-athletes, we must keep up with current national trends in college football. Facilities have become one of the biggest trends for competitive programs around the country and must remain a priority for us in order to win a Pac-12 Championship and the Rose Bowl. Functionality – The current state of the VFC does not allow our student-athletes and/or staff to function as efficiently as possible moving throughout their respective day. We’ve outgrown the building and our facilities must grow as our program continues to grow. The transformational $42-million Victory Through Valley fundraising campaign supported a project that added 37,870 square feet and renovated 25,830 square feet of existing space.” |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 29, 2023 17:19:54 GMT -8
If you want to understand what institutional support means all you have to do is look at Ernie Kent's record at uo vs WSU. At uo he is over 15 wins a season 9 out of 13 seasons, at WSU in five seasons he never reaches 14 wins in a season. Same coach different support. Pretty much all uo's football coaches have vastly underperformed their records at uo after they leave. Where our football $$ went off the rails was building the south end zone cheap seats before rebuilding the north end zone and locker rooms. The south end zone did nothing for us, mostly empty cheap seats for years, where the money should have been spent first was on the locker room north end zone, something recruits could see. Then build the south end zone in anticipation of needing capacity during the west side rebuild. Being tight with recruiting budgets and assistants salaries did not help. You’re sort of right with support, but you lost me on the end zone and locker room thing. We’re not losing recruits due to locker rooms. Corvallis is just not the happening place that recruits want to come to. Even Eugene has a lot more to offer than Corvallis. You're absolutely right on Corvallis and it's perception with a lot of kids, but "little" things can add up whensomeone is on the fence. Everbody went apespit over uo's fancy locker room project and gym project several years later. It is something the media noticed and recruits noticed. It would be interesting to hear opinions directly from our coaches on how they felt as to whether locker rooms matter. My guess is every locker room project we've done has had some influence. uo went over the top on their projects and they probably weren't made immediately obsolete by other more recent projects around the league. It eould be curious to hear Jonathan's private opinions on how being able to show off the new west side give him a bit of an edge that wasn't there before. |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Jan 29, 2023 17:26:33 GMT -8
You’re sort of right with support, but you lost me on the end zone and locker room thing. We’re not losing recruits due to locker rooms. Corvallis is just not the happening place that recruits want to come to. Even Eugene has a lot more to offer than Corvallis. Victory through Valley ring a bell? In OSU’s words to help you out: “Recruiting – Brand and image are an extremely important part of the recruiting process. We recruit on a national level every year and strive to make sure that our brand and image is of the highest quality. We need the VFC to reflect that in every way so recruits see our dedication, commitment and investment in this program through our facilities. Competitiveness – To remain a competitive program and provide the best opportunity for success to our student-athletes, we must keep up with current national trends in college football. Facilities have become one of the biggest trends for competitive programs around the country and must remain a priority for us in order to win a Pac-12 Championship and the Rose Bowl. Functionality – The current state of the VFC does not allow our student-athletes and/or staff to function as efficiently as possible moving throughout their respective day. We’ve outgrown the building and our facilities must grow as our program continues to grow. The transformational $42-million Victory Through Valley fundraising campaign supported a project that added 37,870 square feet and renovated 25,830 square feet of existing space.” And yet we still don’t have sugar daddy Nike $$. Maybe you should start a victory through uncle phil campaign. Our facilities help, but they are not the reason 5 star recruits don’t come here. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverology on Jan 30, 2023 7:05:05 GMT -8
Beaverology: I don't know of anybody that hates tinkle. He seems like a nice guy. Many aren't happy with his record going into the 9th year. They just hate his offense, hate his record at OSU, hate him being the head coach at OSU MBB and want him fired. But nothing against him personally. Heck of a nice guy! |
|
|
|
Post by TheGlove on Jan 30, 2023 7:12:36 GMT -8
Beaverology: I don't know of anybody that hates tinkle. He seems like a nice guy. Many aren't happy with his record going into the 9th year. They just hate his offense, hate his record at OSU, hate him being the head coach at OSU MBB and want him fired. But nothing against him personally. Heck of a nice guy! Correct. This isn’t intramurals brother. The name of the game is winning. |
|
|
|
Post by william44 on Jan 30, 2023 7:46:21 GMT -8
I may be wrong but when Riley left in 2015 for Nebraska it stunned Me when I heard it. I believe the DeCarolas wantet Riley to remove Defensive Coordinator. I believe Riley was loyal to His Coaches. That set things in motion for some bad outcomes. Was it building up un noticed? Maybe.
|
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 30, 2023 9:24:42 GMT -8
I may be wrong but when Riley left in 2015 for Nebraska it stunned Me when I heard it. I believe the DeCarolas wantet Riley to remove Defensive Coordinator. I believe Riley was loyal to His Coaches. That set things in motion for some bad outcomes. Was it building up un noticed? Maybe. It stunned the President of the University enough that he inserted himself into the next hire and the University paid pretty much market rate for a coach for the first time ever. |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 30, 2023 10:03:53 GMT -8
I may be wrong but when Riley left in 2015 for Nebraska it stunned Me when I heard it. I believe the DeCarolas wantet Riley to remove Defensive Coordinator. I believe Riley was loyal to His Coaches. That set things in motion for some bad outcomes. Was it building up un noticed? Maybe. It stunned the President of the University enough that he inserted himself into the next hire and the University paid pretty much market rate for a coach for the first time ever. And we made the worst hire since Joe Avezzano. Thanks, Ed. The next time he stayed out of the way, let the AD do his job and we got an excellent coach. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 30, 2023 10:16:01 GMT -8
It stunned the President of the University enough that he inserted himself into the next hire and the University paid pretty much market rate for a coach for the first time ever. And we made the worst hire since Joe Avezzano. Thanks, Ed. The next time he stayed out of the way, let the AD do his job and we got an excellent coach. I'm fully in support of letting the AD's do their job- Presidents AND fans shouldn't be picking coaches. |
|
|
|
Post by qbeaver on Jan 30, 2023 12:21:51 GMT -8
It used to be a committee picked the osu coaches...not just the athletic director alone. What a disaster.
|
|
|
|
Post by qbeaver on Jan 30, 2023 12:22:02 GMT -8
It used to be a committee picked the osu coaches...not just the athletic director alone. What a disaster.
|
|
