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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 25, 2015 13:35:40 GMT -8
I'm seeing a bunch of fans here are ready to give up on our young guys.
I'll try to give a little bit of perspective that some may find interesting:
Seth Collins:
True freshman season to date - 51.9% completion rate.
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Jonathan Smith:
Redshirt freshman season - 44.8% completion rate.
Redshirt sophomore season - 48.7% completion rate.
Redshirt junior season - 49.0% completion rate.... and a Fiesta Bowl win and top 4 season end ranking for OSU.
It's a little early for freaking out just yet in my opinion.
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Post by seastape on Oct 25, 2015 13:39:19 GMT -8
Agreed.
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zzufrevaeb
Sophomore
Not beaverfuzz
hi
Posts: 1,500 
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Oct 25, 2015 13:49:44 GMT -8
Very misleading stat IMO.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 25, 2015 14:06:39 GMT -8
Very misleading stat IMO. Seth is ahead of Jonathan in TD/INT ratio for his first season as well. He does have a lower yards per passing attempt at this point. I have seen a substantial number of dropped passes this season that have been on the money, I don't recall who Jonathan's receivers were his first year, but he worked with several of OSU's best over his career. I'd think Seth's 5.4 ypc and multiple 100+ yard running games vs the negative yardage most of OSU's top QBS have averaged might factor into some people taking a wait and see position before completely bagging on the kid as well. |
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Post by beaverintheberg on Oct 25, 2015 15:10:13 GMT -8
I'm seeing a bunch of fans here are ready to give up on our young guys. I'll try to give a little bit of perspective that some may find interesting: Seth Collins: True freshman season to date - 51.9% completion rate. . . . . . . Jonathan Smith: Redshirt freshman season - 44.8% completion rate. Redshirt sophomore season - 48.7% completion rate. Redshirt junior season - 49.0% completion rate.... and a Fiesta Bowl win and top 4 season end ranking for OSU. It's a little early for freaking out just yet in my opinion. Big differences though. Jonathon threw a nice catchable ball from the start. Collins throws balls that put the receivers in extreme peril! |
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Post by nabeav on Oct 25, 2015 16:30:29 GMT -8
The biggest difference there is that Smith was in an offense where the entire system wasn't on him to make work. This new offense we have puts so much stress on the QB to make plays and decisions that you can't cover up an average performer at that position with good players elsewhere. Last night you saw a good example of this - Nall was chewing up yardage at a six yards per carry clip, and we only managed one touchdown. Defensively, I think the Beavs can and will be good in a year or two. Offensively, only if a Mariota/Manziel/Dixon/RGIII is signing up.
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Post by JimBeav on Oct 25, 2015 17:38:55 GMT -8
Now let's see a comparison with Smitty on yards per completion, or yards per attempt. Should be night and day. Remember that Terrance Bryant went something like 100+ passes without an interception. But all he could do was dink/dunk stuff, and he could never eat up chunks of yards that's necessary to score. Smith took over because he could actually move the offense. And I'm not talking about long bombs everywhere, I mean the 15-20 yard completions that only come when a QB has the vision to see 2 or 3 receiving options, the quick decision-making to pick the right one, and the accuracy to get it there as soon as that decision is made. None of our QBs have shown that ability, and that's a big reason why we're going to go 0-fer in conference play this year...
My mantra for next year: Save us, Darrell Garretson, you're our only hope..
GO BEAVS!
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 25, 2015 17:44:01 GMT -8
Yet... I still remember how many on the board were calling for Smith's head on a platter, multiple seasons, the same with every starter we've had since.
I'd bet the offense isn't even completely installed yet, much less mastered. Time will tell if only a Heisman run quality QB can run it.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 25, 2015 17:46:06 GMT -8
Now let's see a comparison with Smitty on yards per completion, or yards per attempt. Should be night and day. Remember that Terrance Bryant went something like 100+ passes without an interception. But all he could do was dink/dunk stuff, and he could never eat up chunks of yards that's necessary to score. Smith took over because he could actually move the offense. And I'm not talking about long bombs everywhere, I mean the 15-20 yard completions that only come when a QB has the vision to see 2 or 3 receiving options, the quick decision-making to pick the right one, and the accuracy to get it there as soon as that decision is made. None of our QBs have shown that ability, and that's a big reason why we're going to go 0-fer in conference play this year... My mantra for next year: Save us, Darrell Garretson, you're our only hope.. GO BEAVS! Smith was good... he still had a year and a half in the system before playing much and still completed less than 50% for the bulk of his career. I do think Garretson might have a better shot at making the O click at this point... however it doesn't mean the other kids will never be able to. It amazes me how many here treat kids who are only 1-7 games into their college careers as a finished product. |
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Post by beaverstever on Oct 25, 2015 18:35:04 GMT -8
My biggest disappointment is that we're right where we left off with Riley - a system that heavily relies on excellent QB play. I understand this is true for football in general, but good programs have found a way to hide a QBs deficiencies pretty well while the QB matures. It's inexcusable to me that we couldn't find a way to simplify the offense to score more than 13 points at home against CU.
I strongly believe this team is way more talented than this team has shown, but there's been some glaring, fundamental issues that really holds them back. So I'm confident they will get fixed, I'm just really disappointed we haven't found a way to compensate some of them in the meantime.
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Post by nexus73 on Oct 25, 2015 20:52:30 GMT -8
My biggest disappointment is that we're right where we left off with Riley - a system that heavily relies on excellent QB play. I understand this is true for football in general, but good programs have found a way to hide a QBs deficiencies pretty well while the QB matures. It's inexcusable to me that we couldn't find a way to simplify the offense to score more than 13 points at home against CU. I strongly believe this team is way more talented than this team has shown, but there's been some glaring, fundamental issues that really holds them back. So I'm confident they will get fixed, I'm just really disappointed we haven't found a way to compensate some of them in the meantime. Look at the SMU team from 1980 that had Dickerson and James. The QB was a freshman. He was phenomenal as a wishbone QB. Fast forward to tOSU's 3rd string QB last season. He turned out to be quite the stud when the call for him to take the stage came.
Since these young 'uns are able to drive vehicles and play fast reaction video games at acceptable levels or better when they put their mind to it, why shouldn't a Pac-12 caliber player be able to come in and play the position of QB? Rosen for UCLA is doing well enough. Is it that tough to see an open WR and a clump of defenders where one should not be throwing?
You can accept excuses or demand performance with benching and a removal of schollies for those who can't cut the mustard. Should these problems go on long enough, then the HC needs to fire some assistants and square this situation up before his butt is sent down the road. Smart players catch on very quickly. Smart coaches know how to handle the rooks and get them ready to play. If things are not going well then one has to ask just how smart are these players and coaches? The answer is "not very". Results speak louder than words. Big Time College Football is a performance oriented environment and the weak get culled quickly so long as someone is willing to be ruthless enough in doing the culling. The ones who do the hire and fire gig had better pick right before they in their turn are sent packing. You want "nice" and unconditional acceptance? Go to confession...LOL!
Then there's Linfield's level of football. Decide which way you want to go and get on with the work that needs to be done for the level you decide to play at.
All that said, the current coach and staff get a free pass for 2015 from me since so little was left to work with by Riley, who has gone on to curse Nebraska with his abysmal ways instead of us. Hip-hip hooray and all that BS. However 2016 had better show a higher grade product or else Mr. Andersen is going to be hot-seated come December 2016.
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Angus
Freshman
Posts: 187
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Post by Angus on Oct 25, 2015 21:12:16 GMT -8
I'm seeing a bunch of fans here are ready to give up on our young guys. I'll try to give a little bit of perspective that some may find interesting: Seth Collins: True freshman season to date - 51.9% completion rate. . . . . . . Jonathan Smith: Redshirt freshman season - 44.8% completion rate. Redshirt sophomore season - 48.7% completion rate. Redshirt junior season - 49.0% completion rate.... and a Fiesta Bowl win and top 4 season end ranking for OSU. It's a little early for freaking out just yet in my opinion. I don't think anyone is "giving up on our players" so much as it is just general frustration. Some deserved, some not. But I agree that it is way to early to be expecting much of anything, to be quite honest. If we had the talent of even a mid-level pac12 program, I too might be a bit critical of GA's tunure at this point. But with this bunch that Riley left us, this is going to take time. Probably alot of time. With that, I'm afraid that this isn't going to be the end of the "freaking out". Best to get used to it for quite awhile. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 25, 2015 22:02:40 GMT -8
My biggest disappointment is that we're right where we left off with Riley - a system that heavily relies on excellent QB play. I understand this is true for football in general, but good programs have found a way to hide a QBs deficiencies pretty well while the QB matures. It's inexcusable to me that we couldn't find a way to simplify the offense to score more than 13 points at home against CU. I strongly believe this team is way more talented than this team has shown, but there's been some glaring, fundamental issues that really holds them back. So I'm confident they will get fixed, I'm just really disappointed we haven't found a way to compensate some of them in the meantime. Look at the SMU team from 1980 that had Dickerson and James. The QB was a freshman. He was phenomenal as a wishbone QB. Fast forward to tOSU's 3rd string QB last season. He turned out to be quite the stud when the call for him to take the stage came.
Since these young 'uns are able to drive vehicles and play fast reaction video games at acceptable levels or better when they put their mind to it, why shouldn't a Pac-12 caliber player be able to come in and play the position of QB? Rosen for UCLA is doing well enough. Is it that tough to see an open WR and a clump of defenders where one should not be throwing?
You can accept excuses or demand performance with benching and a removal of schollies for those who can't cut the mustard. Should these problems go on long enough, then the HC needs to fire some assistants and square this situation up before his butt is sent down the road. Smart players catch on very quickly. Smart coaches know how to handle the rooks and get them ready to play. If things are not going well then one has to ask just how smart are these players and coaches? The answer is "not very". Results speak louder than words. Big Time College Football is a performance oriented environment and the weak get culled quickly so long as someone is willing to be ruthless enough in doing the culling. The ones who do the hire and fire gig had better pick right before they in their turn are sent packing. You want "nice" and unconditional acceptance? Go to confession...LOL!
Then there's Linfield's level of football. Decide which way you want to go and get on with the work that needs to be done for the level you decide to play at.
All that said, the current coach and staff get a free pass for 2015 from me since so little was left to work with by Riley, who has gone on to curse Nebraska with his abysmal ways instead of us. Hip-hip hooray and all that BS. However 2016 had better show a higher grade product or else Mr. Andersen is going to be hot-seated come December 2016.
1980? That's a long ways back, and dealing with a team that had Dickerson and James, a senior starter at QB (at least the QB who did most of the passing was a senior) and got given the death penalty by the NCAA for paying players. tOSU is a great team, the circumstances hardly compare. Rosen is doing well enough? He's surrounded by 4 star talent and he is one of only six 5 Star QB recruits playing football in college today. Once again the circumstances hardly compare. i doubt anyone is giving the coaching staff and team a pass forever, but it's hardly the time to talk of firing assistants and such. |
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Post by beaver55to7 on Oct 26, 2015 4:52:53 GMT -8
2 things:
it doesn't matter what the fans think, it is obvious the Coaches think our QB's can't throw. They are the ones who have run three different guys out there willy nilly. I have never seen anything like it...and let's not forget that last years starting QB at Wisconsin is now playing receiver.
the game has changed since 2000. In 2000 none of the QB's in the league had percentages above 55%. Right now 6 of 12 are above 60%, 2 are above 70% and the only QB below 55% is Collins at 50.5%.
To to see the gap, Hogan leading the PAC 12 has a pass efficiency number of 200, Collins, last in the PAC, has a efficiency numbe of 100.
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Post by nexus73 on Oct 26, 2015 5:41:07 GMT -8
To drunkandstoopidbeaver:
This is what you wrote:
i doubt anyone is giving the coaching staff and team a pass forever, but it's hardly the time to talk of firing assistants and such.
Here is what I wrote: Should these problems go on long enough, then the HC needs to fire some assistants...
Actually now is the time to speak of the temporal element. At this point I am happy to give Andersen and Co. their free pass for 2015 and wait until the end of the 2016 season before making an evaluation of him and the staff short of a major scandal coming down the pike. What is your timeframe? 2017? 2018? More importantly what is the AD's, president's and big money boosters' time frame? That will determine when plaudits (contract extensions) or punishments (firings) are handed out.
Just as we have expectations we also set those expectations in a framework of time, thus the topic should be open for discussion now as well as in the future.
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