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Post by osulax24 on Jul 7, 2019 8:02:43 GMT -8
Herbert reminds me ALOT of Nick Foles, similiar size and what is really striking is they both are STEAKY as hell. Like Herbert will come out for one half and look like Steve Young and then in the second half look Steve Walsh. Like a ribeye or porterhouse? Now you are really stirring the pot |
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Post by RenoBeaver on Jul 8, 2019 9:41:35 GMT -8
It's a crapshoot, not easy to project how well a QB will adapt to the NFL game. How many QBs were taken before Russell Wilson and Dak Prescott?
With that said, Justin Herbert is the NFL's next Blake Bortles
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Post by sagebrush on Jul 8, 2019 16:04:46 GMT -8
Good gawd,give him a break.. He is a kid. Time to grow.
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Post by green85 on Jul 9, 2019 9:38:07 GMT -8
Herbert reminds me ALOT of Nick Foles, similiar size and what is really striking is they both are STEAKY as hell. Like Herbert will come out for one half and look like Steve Young and then in the second half look Steve Walsh. I think Foles was better. I also think Luton is better, at least until Herbert gets good coaching. He got ruined by Taggart and Recruiter Dude. HC Taggart had very little to do with coaching quarterbacks at Oregon. Actually it appears Taggart have very little to do with coaching at Oregon (decent recruiter apparently). HC Cristobal did not and does not coach quarterbacks. I'd say that neither head coach had much to do with any lack of development by Herbert, except as it relates to offensive scheme and/or game plans. Cristobal certainly hasn't helped Herbert much with his desire to create smash-mouth football, but he hasn't prevented Herbert from completing passes. The culprits in Herbert's mediocre numbers are: Receivers that drop passes OC Arroyo play calling Herbert's hesitancy to deliver the ball (caused by players that drop passes) which led to Herbert's dependence upon WR Mitchell which led to more receiver problems (route running) and Herbert not reading the defense effectively You can assess Herbert as "mediocre" based upon 2018 stats, but you can also look deeper to understand how those stats were built (and fell short). The fact is that Herbert WAS mediocre (compared to the hype) in 2018. AND he really hasn't shown top flight QB play in college to-date. I will be very surprised if Herbert does not exceed 2018 with a much better performance in 2019. I'll guess that Herbert has 30+ touchdown passes in 2019, with 10 or less interceptions. It is possible that Luton could put up similar numbers ... but football is a team sport where a QB performance is tremendously affected by the play of his o-line. Not sure the OSU team will let Luton get to those numbers. |
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Post by orangeattack on Jul 9, 2019 10:09:50 GMT -8
I think Foles was better. I also think Luton is better, at least until Herbert gets good coaching. He got ruined by Taggart and Recruiter Dude. HC Taggart had very little to do with coaching quarterbacks at Oregon. Actually it appears Taggart have very little to do with coaching at Oregon (decent recruiter apparently). HC Cristobal did not and does not coach quarterbacks. I'd say that neither head coach had much to do with any lack of development by Herbert, except as it relates to offensive scheme and/or game plans. Cristobal certainly hasn't helped Herbert much with his desire to create smash-mouth football, but he hasn't prevented Herbert from completing passes. The culprits in Herbert's mediocre numbers are: Receivers that drop passes OC Arroyo play calling Herbert's hesitancy to deliver the ball (caused by players that drop passes) which led to Herbert's dependence upon WR Mitchell which led to more receiver problems (route running) and Herbert not reading the defense effectively You can assess Herbert as "mediocre" based upon 2018 stats, but you can also look deeper to understand how those stats were built (and fell short). The fact is that Herbert WAS mediocre (compared to the hype) in 2018. AND he really hasn't shown top flight QB play in college to-date. I will be very surprised if Herbert does not exceed 2018 with a much better performance in 2019. I'll guess that Herbert has 30+ touchdown passes in 2019, with 10 or less interceptions. It is possible that Luton could put up similar numbers ... but football is a team sport where a QB performance is tremendously affected by the play of his o-line. Not sure the OSU team will let Luton get to those numbers. OSU has a serviceable starting 5 but injuries will be devastating. So Luton could have a "breakout year" or he could spend his entire season struggling to stay/get healthy. No way to really predict his trajectory because as you note, he doesn't control his own destiny much in this manner. Herbert will improve with another year of experience, I don't expect a slump. If he doesn't get drafted, he'll pick up a FA deal. I expect the same from Luton, in that respect.. assuming he makes it to the end of the season. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 9, 2019 10:39:09 GMT -8
HC Taggart had very little to do with coaching quarterbacks at Oregon. Actually it appears Taggart have very little to do with coaching at Oregon (decent recruiter apparently). HC Cristobal did not and does not coach quarterbacks. I'd say that neither head coach had much to do with any lack of development by Herbert, except as it relates to offensive scheme and/or game plans. Cristobal certainly hasn't helped Herbert much with his desire to create smash-mouth football, but he hasn't prevented Herbert from completing passes. The culprits in Herbert's mediocre numbers are: Receivers that drop passes OC Arroyo play calling Herbert's hesitancy to deliver the ball (caused by players that drop passes) which led to Herbert's dependence upon WR Mitchell which led to more receiver problems (route running) and Herbert not reading the defense effectively You can assess Herbert as "mediocre" based upon 2018 stats, but you can also look deeper to understand how those stats were built (and fell short). The fact is that Herbert WAS mediocre (compared to the hype) in 2018. AND he really hasn't shown top flight QB play in college to-date. I will be very surprised if Herbert does not exceed 2018 with a much better performance in 2019. I'll guess that Herbert has 30+ touchdown passes in 2019, with 10 or less interceptions. It is possible that Luton could put up similar numbers ... but football is a team sport where a QB performance is tremendously affected by the play of his o-line. Not sure the OSU team will let Luton get to those numbers. OSU has a serviceable starting 5 but injuries will be devastating. So Luton could have a "breakout year" or he could spend his entire season struggling to stay/get healthy. No way to really predict his trajectory because as you note, he doesn't control his own destiny much in this manner. Herbert will improve with another year of experience, I don't expect a slump. If he doesn't get drafted, he'll pick up a FA deal. I expect the same from Luton, in that respect.. assuming he makes it to the end of the season. He's projected to be a top 5 pick. Unless he stinks it up completely, there is no way he doesn't get drafted. |
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Post by green85 on Jul 9, 2019 11:01:29 GMT -8
OSU has a serviceable starting 5 but injuries will be devastating. So Luton could have a "breakout year" or he could spend his entire season struggling to stay/get healthy. No way to really predict his trajectory because as you note, he doesn't control his own destiny much in this manner. Herbert will improve with another year of experience, I don't expect a slump. If he doesn't get drafted, he'll pick up a FA deal. I expect the same from Luton, in that respect.. assuming he makes it to the end of the season. He's projected to be a top 5 pick. Unless he stinks it up completely, there is no way he doesn't get drafted. Herbert's physical attributes lead most to expect high draft status. I think the point of one poster was that Herbert has not shown to be a great college QB. I think one factor that works in Herbert's favor as far as draft status is that he is smart. Which can help an NFL coach predict that he is coach-able and has the ability to grasp an offensive scheme. BUT the fact remains that Herbert's college PERFORMANCE to-date isn't really the high level marketable stuff that sells tickets - especially if he is expected to be a first-year starter in the NFL (most highly drafted QB's out of college have had an expectation of near ready to start and a name that sells tickets). 2019 may be the year that Herbert puts college performance on the field to help his NFL draft status ... or it may be the year that actually drops him to second round or worse. |
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Post by orangeattack on Jul 9, 2019 12:29:34 GMT -8
OSU has a serviceable starting 5 but injuries will be devastating. So Luton could have a "breakout year" or he could spend his entire season struggling to stay/get healthy. No way to really predict his trajectory because as you note, he doesn't control his own destiny much in this manner. Herbert will improve with another year of experience, I don't expect a slump. If he doesn't get drafted, he'll pick up a FA deal. I expect the same from Luton, in that respect.. assuming he makes it to the end of the season. He's projected to be a top 5 pick. Unless he stinks it up completely, there is no way he doesn't get drafted. shows how out of touch I am these days - had no idea he was that highly regarded. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 9, 2019 12:38:48 GMT -8
He's projected to be a top 5 pick. Unless he stinks it up completely, there is no way he doesn't get drafted. shows how out of touch I am these days - had no idea he was that highly regarded. There was some talk that Justin Hebert would have gone 1-1 to the Cardinals, if he came out this year. (A great reason to stay in school another year, I guess?) Next year's draft class is supposed to be more well-stocked at QB. Hebert is still a consensus top 2-3 QB and top 5-10 pick, though. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 9, 2019 13:40:07 GMT -8
I think Foles was better. I also think Luton is better, at least until Herbert gets good coaching. He got ruined by Taggart and Recruiter Dude. HC Taggart had very little to do with coaching quarterbacks at Oregon. Actually it appears Taggart have very little to do with coaching at Oregon (decent recruiter apparently). HC Cristobal did not and does not coach quarterbacks. I'd say that neither head coach had much to do with any lack of development by Herbert, except as it relates to offensive scheme and/or game plans. Cristobal certainly hasn't helped Herbert much with his desire to create smash-mouth football, but he hasn't prevented Herbert from completing passes. The culprits in Herbert's mediocre numbers are: Receivers that drop passes OC Arroyo play calling Herbert's hesitancy to deliver the ball (caused by players that drop passes) which led to Herbert's dependence upon WR Mitchell which led to more receiver problems (route running) and Herbert not reading the defense effectively You can assess Herbert as "mediocre" based upon 2018 stats, but you can also look deeper to understand how those stats were built (and fell short). The fact is that Herbert WAS mediocre (compared to the hype) in 2018. AND he really hasn't shown top flight QB play in college to-date. I will be very surprised if Herbert does not exceed 2018 with a much better performance in 2019. I'll guess that Herbert has 30+ touchdown passes in 2019, with 10 or less interceptions. It is possible that Luton could put up similar numbers ... but football is a team sport where a QB performance is tremendously affected by the play of his o-line. Not sure the OSU team will let Luton get to those numbers. This is a good discussion, and you make good points. I will however respectfully disagree with a few things you said. First, the Head Coach is responsible for everything. He hires the qb coaches, sets the direction and tone of the program, and is responsible and accountable for everything, including- no, especially the qb's play. I think it's worth noting that even you appear to not be able to come up with the qb coaches name(s) off the top of your head, which I think makes my point. Taggs was great at that dramatic raised, open arms thing at his press conferences though, wasn't he. What a fraud. Anyway, not disagreeing with all of your reasoning as to the dropoff in Herbert, but just watching him throw the ball it seemed obvious to me that something had changed that deteriorated his effectiveness. Perhaps it's some or a combination of all the things you said, but I will still add coaching. He should have been much better based on natural ability by itself. I don't know how either qb will do, and it sounds strange, but considering returning players only I would have to say: - Offensive Line: Oregon
- Receivers: Oregon State
- Running Backs: Oregon State
- Quarterbacks: Equal. Not sure who the Ducks backup will be, but if it's Burmeister I'd go with Oregon State.
Only time will tell.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jul 9, 2019 15:48:44 GMT -8
Burmeister transferred to West Virginia or someplace. Nice kid but another 4-star QB recruit who left the program not coming anywhere near his supposed potential.
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Post by green85 on Jul 10, 2019 8:31:19 GMT -8
HC Taggart had very little to do with coaching quarterbacks at Oregon. Actually it appears Taggart have very little to do with coaching at Oregon (decent recruiter apparently). HC Cristobal did not and does not coach quarterbacks. I'd say that neither head coach had much to do with any lack of development by Herbert, except as it relates to offensive scheme and/or game plans. Cristobal certainly hasn't helped Herbert much with his desire to create smash-mouth football, but he hasn't prevented Herbert from completing passes. The culprits in Herbert's mediocre numbers are: Receivers that drop passes OC Arroyo play calling Herbert's hesitancy to deliver the ball (caused by players that drop passes) which led to Herbert's dependence upon WR Mitchell which led to more receiver problems (route running) and Herbert not reading the defense effectively You can assess Herbert as "mediocre" based upon 2018 stats, but you can also look deeper to understand how those stats were built (and fell short). The fact is that Herbert WAS mediocre (compared to the hype) in 2018. AND he really hasn't shown top flight QB play in college to-date. I will be very surprised if Herbert does not exceed 2018 with a much better performance in 2019. I'll guess that Herbert has 30+ touchdown passes in 2019, with 10 or less interceptions. It is possible that Luton could put up similar numbers ... but football is a team sport where a QB performance is tremendously affected by the play of his o-line. Not sure the OSU team will let Luton get to those numbers. This is a good discussion, and you make good points. I will however respectfully disagree with a few things you said. First, the Head Coach is responsible for everything. He hires the qb coaches, sets the direction and tone of the program, and is responsible and accountable for everything, including- no, especially the qb's play. I think it's worth noting that even you appear to not be able to come up with the qb coaches name(s) off the top of your head, which I think makes my point. Taggs was great at that dramatic raised, open arms thing at his press conferences though, wasn't he. What a fraud. Anyway, not disagreeing with all of your reasoning as to the dropoff in Herbert, but just watching him throw the ball it seemed obvious to me that something had changed that deteriorated his effectiveness. Perhaps it's some or a combination of all the things you said, but I will still add coaching. He should have been much better based on natural ability by itself. I don't know how either qb will do, and it sounds strange, but considering returning players only I would have to say: - Offensive Line: Oregon
- Receivers: Oregon State
- Running Backs: Oregon State
- Quarterbacks: Equal. Not sure who the Ducks backup will be, but if it's Burmeister I'd go with Oregon State.
Only time will tell.
I am 90% sure that OC Arroyo is the QB coach. I agree, some of the issue is coaching. I think more of the issue developed because of lack of confidence ... which caused Herbert to hesitate. It drove a few of my Duck friends crazy to watch Herbert hold the ball, pat the ball and then try to complete a pass to Mitchell late. Herbert's backup appears to be Tyler Shough, redshirt freshman from Arizona. He looked good in Spring ball and impressed Cristobal in spring practice sessions enough to get a mention in press interview. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 10, 2019 12:15:39 GMT -8
This is a good discussion, and you make good points. I will however respectfully disagree with a few things you said. First, the Head Coach is responsible for everything. He hires the qb coaches, sets the direction and tone of the program, and is responsible and accountable for everything, including- no, especially the qb's play. I think it's worth noting that even you appear to not be able to come up with the qb coaches name(s) off the top of your head, which I think makes my point. Taggs was great at that dramatic raised, open arms thing at his press conferences though, wasn't he. What a fraud. Anyway, not disagreeing with all of your reasoning as to the dropoff in Herbert, but just watching him throw the ball it seemed obvious to me that something had changed that deteriorated his effectiveness. Perhaps it's some or a combination of all the things you said, but I will still add coaching. He should have been much better based on natural ability by itself. I don't know how either qb will do, and it sounds strange, but considering returning players only I would have to say: - Offensive Line: Oregon
- Receivers: Oregon State
- Running Backs: Oregon State
- Quarterbacks: Equal. Not sure who the Ducks backup will be, but if it's Burmeister I'd go with Oregon State.
Only time will tell.
I am 90% sure that OC Arroyo is the QB coach. I agree, some of the issue is coaching. I think more of the issue developed because of lack of confidence ... which caused Herbert to hesitate. It drove a few of my Duck friends crazy to watch Herbert hold the ball, pat the ball and then try to complete a pass to Mitchell late. Herbert's backup appears to be Tyler Shough, redshirt freshman from Arizona. He looked good in Spring ball and impressed Cristobal in spring practice sessions enough to get a mention in press interview. "He looked good in Spring ball and impressed Cristobal in spring practice sessions enough to get a mention in press interview." Just like the next Mariota, Jeff Lockie! Sorry, couldn't resist. But yes, I get it. |
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Post by green85 on Jul 10, 2019 14:15:30 GMT -8
I am 90% sure that OC Arroyo is the QB coach. I agree, some of the issue is coaching. I think more of the issue developed because of lack of confidence ... which caused Herbert to hesitate. It drove a few of my Duck friends crazy to watch Herbert hold the ball, pat the ball and then try to complete a pass to Mitchell late. Herbert's backup appears to be Tyler Shough, redshirt freshman from Arizona. He looked good in Spring ball and impressed Cristobal in spring practice sessions enough to get a mention in press interview. "He looked good in Spring ball and impressed Cristobal in spring practice sessions enough to get a mention in press interview." Just like the next Mariota, Jeff Lockie! Sorry, couldn't resist. But yes, I get it. Pretty funny Nicely played BTW ... you can't throw a rock in Eugene without hitting a Duck fan ready to hype something about UO |
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Post by biggieorange on Jul 11, 2019 8:23:33 GMT -8
Herbert reminds me ALOT of Nick Foles, similiar size and what is really striking is they both are STEAKY as hell. Like Herbert will come out for one half and look like Steve Young and then in the second half look Steve Walsh. I think Foles was better. I also think Luton is better, at least until Herbert gets good coaching. He got ruined by Taggart and Recruiter Dude. Foles had a lot of stinkers in college too. Seem to recall he dealt with coaching changes as well while at Zona |
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