|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 7, 2019 19:42:15 GMT -8
Let me be clear. I AM NOT suggesting we leave the Pac-12 for the MWC. That said, Boise St continues to emphasize how bad of times our football program has fallen to. Doing way more with less. Whatever they are putting in the water up there is working. And, they still fill up their stadium. We could use a dose of whatever they're doing. Folks with this thought process are tough to reason with. BSU is doing far less with less. Yep they get ranked, win a conference, win a bowl, even a surprise "elite" win... BUT Whatever pluses you state is because of the conferences they were/are in. They'd averaging 4-7 wins playing a Pac10/Pac12 schedule and scheduling their additional softies. Their recruits wouldn't look so hot vs consistent 4/5* talent. BSU also has an inferior academic profile and entrance requirements Without naming names I can tell you two of their former stars didn't qualify at OSU. PS- if BSU had the football world by the tail their coaches would have never left. They've done great for who they are. But, make no mistake comparing what they are like to what they would be if they were playing in the Pac12 (which they can't) is foolish. Just think of how the team would have looked over the years if we could have played kids who couldn't qualify.
|
|
|
Post by beavheart on Sept 7, 2019 22:16:00 GMT -8
Let me be clear. I AM NOT suggesting we leave the Pac-12 for the MWC. That said, Boise St continues to emphasize how bad of times our football program has fallen to. Doing way more with less. Whatever they are putting in the water up there is working. And, they still fill up their stadium. We could use a dose of whatever they're doing. Folks with this thought process are tough to reason with. BSU is doing far less with less. Yep they get ranked, win a conference, win a bowl, even a surprise "elite" win... BUT Whatever pluses you state is because of the conferences they were/are in. They'd averaging 4-7 wins playing a Pac10/Pac12 schedule and scheduling their additional softies. Their recruits wouldn't look so hot vs consistent 4/5* talent. BSU also has an inferior academic profile and entrance requirements Without naming names I can tell you two of their former stars didn't qualify at OSU. PS- if BSU had the football world by the tail their coaches would have never left. They've done great for who they are. But, make no mistake comparing what they are like to what they would be if they were playing in the Pac12 (which they can't) is foolish. Not sure what gave you the idea that I am a Donk apologist? Simply pointing out that they are winning the long game, and we should not be looking up to them with our resources! Everything else you said is completely besides the point. The WAY they are relevant is well documented! Thank you captain obvious.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Sept 7, 2019 22:20:16 GMT -8
Folks with this thought process are tough to reason with. BSU is doing far less with less. Yep they get ranked, win a conference, win a bowl, even a surprise "elite" win... BUT Whatever pluses you state is because of the conferences they were/are in. They'd averaging 4-7 wins playing a Pac10/Pac12 schedule and scheduling their additional softies. Their recruits wouldn't look so hot vs consistent 4/5* talent. BSU also has an inferior academic profile and entrance requirements Without naming names I can tell you two of their former stars didn't qualify at OSU. PS- if BSU had the football world by the tail their coaches would have never left. They've done great for who they are. But, make no mistake comparing what they are like to what they would be if they were playing in the Pac12 (which they can't) is foolish. Not sure what gave you the idea that I am a Donk apologist? Simply pointing out that they are winning the long game, and we should not be looking up to them with our resources! Everything else you said is completely besides the point. The WAY they are relevant is well documented! Thank you captain obvious. So is their relevance... thx for playing the obvious game!
|
|
|
Post by bennyskid on Sept 8, 2019 8:30:37 GMT -8
This is like looking across the street at the neighbor with the six-year-old sports car that they are 10-grand underwater on. It looks kewl in the driveway, but the only reason the idiot hasn't had it repo-ed is his parents are making the payments on it.
|
|
EOBeav
Freshman
Posts: 499
Grad Year: 1989, 2002
|
Post by EOBeav on Sept 8, 2019 8:43:49 GMT -8
If Boise St. plays Washington, Oregon, USC, etc... every year, they're going to look a lot different.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Sept 8, 2019 9:41:55 GMT -8
If Boise St. plays Washington, Oregon, USC, etc... every year, they're going to look a lot different. Hell... way to make my point... in far less words! Damn! 🍻
|
|
|
Post by beavheart on Sept 8, 2019 10:45:27 GMT -8
I'm glad everyone could get their rocks off about the way Boise St is relevant. If they had to play Pac-12? IF's, and's, and but's my friends.
Anyone have an actual solution to the problem? Besides demanding that our AD make a stand about being relegated to secondary status in our own "awesome" conference? I keep pointing out that we are losing the arms race while seemingly being given a hand up over a school like Donk U. Anyone care to address that?
Spare me the "they would be us in the Pac-12" argument. Maybe they would. We'll never know. Hey, their state senator went to bat for them when they were being "shut out" of the process and now they are given way more deference than OSU. Maybe we can get Merkley or Wyden to step up and chirp a little about how the media perpetuates the Have's and Have-Not's in CFB, or how our own conference gives preferential treatment to certian schools in our own conference over others. I dunno, maybe???
|
|
|
Post by orangeattack on Sept 8, 2019 10:56:43 GMT -8
This is like looking across the street at the neighbor with the six-year-old sports car that they are 10-grand underwater on. It looks kewl in the driveway, but the only reason the idiot hasn't had it repo-ed is his parents are making the payments on it. That is a surprisingly accurate analogy.
|
|
|
Post by orangeattack on Sept 8, 2019 11:13:11 GMT -8
I'm glad everyone could get their rocks off about the way Boise St is relevant. If they had to play Pac-12? IF's, and's, and but's my friends. Anyone have an actual solution to the problem? Besides demanding that our AD make a stand about being relegated to secondary status in our own "awesome" conference? I keep pointing out that we are losing the arms race while seemingly being given a hand up over a school like Donk U. Anyone care to address that? Spare me the "they would be us in the Pac-12" argument. Maybe they would. We'll never know. Hey, their state senator went to bat for them when they were being "shut out" of the process and now they are given way more deference than OSU. Maybe we can get Merkley or Wyden to step up and chirp a little about how the media perpetuates the Have's and Have-Not's in CFB, or how our own conference gives preferential treatment to certian schools in our own conference over others. I dunno, maybe??? I think the truly relevant item is very simply the support relative to their circumstances compared to OSU. They are the richest kid in the poorest school and we are the poorest kid at the richest school. You can compete being in our position by being well-run, but instead of Riley/Erickson as proof, it might be more instructive to look at Washington State, where we can be more impartial. It can be done. The Pirate is proving it true, Mike Price proved it. But in between there was a guy who squandered the good momentum that Price had from successfully building the program over a decade (Doba) who drove the program back to the stone ages, then a hometown hero (Wulff) who came back to fix the program and simply didn’t have the vision/skill set to pull off a rebuild of the size he was being asked to orchestrate. I hope this is not what it likes to watch a forest burn in slow motion.
|
|
|
Post by beavheart on Sept 8, 2019 11:36:01 GMT -8
I'm glad everyone could get their rocks off about the way Boise St is relevant. If they had to play Pac-12? IF's, and's, and but's my friends. Anyone have an actual solution to the problem? Besides demanding that our AD make a stand about being relegated to secondary status in our own "awesome" conference? I keep pointing out that we are losing the arms race while seemingly being given a hand up over a school like Donk U. Anyone care to address that? Spare me the "they would be us in the Pac-12" argument. Maybe they would. We'll never know. Hey, their state senator went to bat for them when they were being "shut out" of the process and now they are given way more deference than OSU. Maybe we can get Merkley or Wyden to step up and chirp a little about how the media perpetuates the Have's and Have-Not's in CFB, or how our own conference gives preferential treatment to certian schools in our own conference over others. I dunno, maybe??? I think the truly relevant item is very simply the support relative to their circumstances compared to OSU. They are the richest kid in the poorest school and we are the poorest kid at the richest school. You can compete being in our position by being well-run, but instead of Riley/Erickson as proof, it might be more instructive to look at Washington State, where we can be more impartial. It can be done. The Pirate is proving it true, Mike Price proved it. But in between there was a guy who squandered the good momentum that Price had from successfully building the program over a decade (Doba) who drove the program back to the stone ages, then a hometown hero (Wulff) who came back to fix the program and simply didn’t have the vision/skill set to pull off a rebuild of the size he was being asked to orchestrate. I hope this is not what it likes to watch a forest burn in slow motion. Great post! Thank you. And, I really hope our fate isn't sealed as well! But, it increasingly feels like it is. I think you have a great point about it not being very constructive to compare ourselves to BSU. I think it is just insult heaped on injury to watch small-man-syndrome make an end-around run to legitimacy while we struggle to get off the mat. Agree that it's much more instructive to look at other programs in the major conferences that are also showing up to school with no shoes, or a pencil. WSU is showing the way right now, but what happens to them when the pirate goes elsewhere? What if JS doesn't pan out? How many coaches will we rifle through before we can overcome the obstacles in front of us? Meanwhile, our "reputation" as a hard-nosed, get-it-done in spite of our obstacles football school that took a decade and half to build has been squandered in a few short years, and getting back there seems impossible now. I guess the problem, as I see it, is that the Have's already advantages baked in to their scenario. But, when our games aren't even shown on TV, or when our own conference guarantees games/access to SoCal to some schools and not others, or when the media payouts are not equitable within our own conference... well, it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. BSU literally went to congress when it became apparent that they were not going to get a fair shake. Our situation is a little different, but it sure feels like were in the same boat. What is OSU going to do about it? Anything? Hoping for that generational coach to defy the odds doesn't feel like a solution anymore.
|
|
|
Post by kersting13 on Sept 8, 2019 22:56:12 GMT -8
The recipe is simple: - Be the only sports program of any sort - pro or college - within a six hour drive of a metro area with 750k population, guaranteeing that you sell out your 36,000-seat stadium no matter who is visiting. - Be the only university in that same metro area, guaranteeing a monopoly of local educational philanthropy. - And be in the state capital, making it easy to lobby for state support, too. Fully 28% of the BSU athletics budget comes from state and institutional support. (It's 12% for OSU.) - Get into a horrifically bad conference (WAC) filled with second-rate state schools that can't afford soap for the locker room dispensers, so your subsidized team can rack up double-digit win totals year-after-year. - Play one super-duper exciting New Year's bowl game against a name-brand team that people will forget had a three-loss season, and win it on a trick play in overtime.- Move on to a better conference, but distract people from noticing that other teams in the conference are as good or better by talking about the historical record and that bowl game that happened 12 years before. With any luck, you can finish with a 10-3 record and a win in the First Responder Bowl, which will get you ranked about #23 in the final polls. - Schedule as tough of a non-conference schedule as you can, knowing that you have at least eight wins baked into your schedule already. Given that games are scheduled up to a decade in advance, it's almost certain that every few years you'll manage to catch a name program in a down year. It's simple, but hard to replicate. There were actually 3 trick plays needed to win that game. One of which (HB pass) should have been negated by Jared Zabransky's illegal motion pre-snap (he was clearly moving forward prior to the snap of the ball).
|
|
|
Post by biggieorange on Sept 9, 2019 7:28:01 GMT -8
I'm glad everyone could get their rocks off about the way Boise St is relevant. If they had to play Pac-12? IF's, and's, and but's my friends. Anyone have an actual solution to the problem? Besides demanding that our AD make a stand about being relegated to secondary status in our own "awesome" conference? I keep pointing out that we are losing the arms race while seemingly being given a hand up over a school like Donk U. Anyone care to address that? Spare me the "they would be us in the Pac-12" argument. Maybe they would. We'll never know. Hey, their state senator went to bat for them when they were being "shut out" of the process and now they are given way more deference than OSU. Maybe we can get Merkley or Wyden to step up and chirp a little about how the media perpetuates the Have's and Have-Not's in CFB, or how our own conference gives preferential treatment to certian schools in our own conference over others. I dunno, maybe??? I think the truly relevant item is very simply the support relative to their circumstances compared to OSU. They are the richest kid in the poorest school and we are the poorest kid at the richest school. You can compete being in our position by being well-run, but instead of Riley/Erickson as proof, it might be more instructive to look at Washington State, where we can be more impartial. It can be done. The Pirate is proving it true, Mike Price proved it. But in between there was a guy who squandered the good momentum that Price had from successfully building the program over a decade (Doba) who drove the program back to the stone ages, then a hometown hero (Wulff) who came back to fix the program and simply didn’t have the vision/skill set to pull off a rebuild of the size he was being asked to orchestrate. I hope this is not what it likes to watch a forest burn in slow motion. Ill add that BSU's rise had the lucky coincidence of happening at the same time a ton of Silicon Valley money was deposited on Boise. BSU football was the only real game in town, they have a nice group of boosters that have a decent amount of cash to bestow on the program along with their historical donors has given the school the boost to compete. The Boise economy has been a really key factor in their growth. I mean, not to dog Corvallis too much, but more organic flavors of kefir available at the coop and another vegan bakery or is about all the Corvallis growth I am noticing since by 18 years of departure from Corvallis. So Dan Hawkins hires Chris Peterson and they start winning at precisely the same time a new group of well healed transplants show up in Boise and they captured that fan base and then when Peterson finally leaves (and they were VERY lucky he waited for as long as he did) they got a guy, that maybe isn't as good, but is capable of keeping the wheels on the cart. It isn't totally coincidence that the very peak of OSU football coincided with the late nineties and the best economy Corvallis had seen since, s%#t I don't know when. I mean UO has Knight to ensure the Ducks are flush with whatever they need and can withstand economic downturns/etc. Trust me if BSU unpriorized funding for the football team for 8 years then when Harsin left to coach, like Tennessee they when and hired a dumpster fire coach that then bailed on them mid-season they too wouldn't have a full stadium to watch them lose to a Big12 team.
|
|
billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
|
Post by billsaab on Sept 9, 2019 8:40:02 GMT -8
Well this thread is becoming silly. BSU has been good for a long time. Say what You will,trick plays,non qualifiers, etc. I know Rileys Teams got spanked by them. We often won in Corvallis by a point or two. Our problems are internal and really all I see is excuses trying to explain it away. It seems to Me we should see what WSU does in our League to compete. It seems their Dept got a good System Coach. We do not have that as our guys are not playing this system very well. Especially on Defense. I am 74 and have Seen every Beaver system going back to Prothrombin as a Youth. Andros system worked,until the Milton incident. After that Fertig did not work,Avezzano did not work,Kragthorpe almost but not quite. Pettibone almost but not quite. Had a President that fixed it. Too bad He went back to Oklahoma because since than we had Riley who had a system as did Erickson. The Constant is the School leadership period. Stadium half done as I look to the New Side from Section 13 row 40. I do not see it getting fixed in my lifetime. Watching mediocre football for many decades for myself Centers the blame on the School leadership. Cannot make excuses as I have heard them all. Enjoy the mediocrity folks.
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 9, 2019 9:27:01 GMT -8
Riley also defeated Boise State twice.
I guess we'll see you again in a couple years.
PS: The entire east side is new. The south end zone is new, wrapping around to about the 10-yard line. The north end zone is new. There is less than a quarter of the stadium left to finish.
PPS: Paragraphs are your friend.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Sept 9, 2019 9:54:38 GMT -8
Well this thread is becoming silly. BSU has been good for a long time. Say what You will,trick plays,non qualifiers, etc. I know Rileys Teams got spanked by them. We often won in Corvallis by a point or two. Our problems are internal and really all I see is excuses trying to explain it away. It seems to Me we should see what WSU does in our League to compete. It seems their Dept got a good System Coach. We do not have that as our guys are not playing this system very well. Especially on Defense. I am 74 and have Seen every Beaver system going back to Prothrombin as a Youth. Andros system worked,until the Milton incident. After that Fertig did not work,Avezzano did not work,Kragthorpe almost but not quite. Pettibone almost but not quite. Had a President that fixed it. Too bad He went back to Oklahoma because since than we had Riley who had a system as did Erickson. The Constant is the School leadership period. Stadium half done as I look to the New Side from Section 13 row 40. I do not see it getting fixed in my lifetime. Watching mediocre football for many decades for myself Centers the blame on the School leadership. Cannot make excuses as I have heard them all. Enjoy the mediocrity folks. Wow... did not know pcm and shelby had kids??
|
|