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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 16, 2018 17:07:45 GMT -8
Some of the things on my list were devastating decisions that set the program back decades. 3M over Luton just is not of that caliber, in my opinion. If McMaryion is named the starter in 2017, he doesn't leave, we don't go 1-11 and the program doesn't go into a tailspin. It really is that simple. I still believe that GA would have been fired, but he wouldn't have left mid season. And we would have had an experienced senior under center going into 2018. This program is as bad right now as it has been in my 30+ years of paying attention to Beaver football. [b Yeah, if he doesn’t leave, we might have went 4-8! Rejoice!
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Post by dreambeavr on Jul 16, 2018 17:10:48 GMT -8
It's your list, but to me it seems kinda short on the final 4 Andros years when OSU went 2-9, 2-9, 3-8, 1-10. I think elevating Andros to AD rates a mention as he presided over the pathetic Fertig and Avezzano years and their combined 16-81-3 record (7-60-2 in conference). It's incredible that we had any football fans at all by the time Andros stepped down as AD. The seeds to the Streak were sown in 1968. Oregon State was preseason #1 in Playboy and #8 in the AP Poll. However, Jess Lewis qualified for the Olympics and missed the season. Steve Preece got hurt in the first game against Iowa in Iowa City. And Oregon State missed an extra point in the second quarter, which wound up costing the Beavers the game. The Hawkeyes finished sixth in the Big Ten. Three weeks later, #20 Oregon State traveled to play Kentucky in Lexington. Oregon State scored with seven minutes left and opted to play for the tie rather than go for the win. However, the Beavers missed the extra point to lose 35-34. The Wildcats finished 0-7, dead last in the SEC. Oregon State won the next four. The Beavers beat the Sun Devils 28-9, Oregon State's biggest win in the State of Oregon prior to 2003. Oregon State defeated Stanford 29-7, the Beavers' biggest win over the Indians/Cardinals/Cardinal between 1962 and 2006. Oregon State finished the four games by beating UCLA and Tommy Prothro 45-21, the biggest win by the Beavers against the Bruins in Corvallis prior to 1999. Oregon State went to the Coliseum to play #1 USC and had a fourth quarter lead but blew it to fall behind 17-7. The Beavers scored on a 72-yard touchdown pass and recovered the onside kick but fumbled it trying to advance the ball to lose 17-13. Before the onside kick, Oregon State missed three field goals. If Oregon State had defeated USC, the Beavers would have played in the 1969 Rose Bowl rather than the Trojans. In the off-season, Andros riled up Fred Milton. Some of Jess Lewis' associates from his time in Mexico City helped to fan the flames. By the time the 1969 season rolled around, only two African-Americans remained on the roster. Andros had recruited well enough after the 1967 Giant Killers year, that the senior-laden 1971 Oregon State team was able to post a 3-4 record with a win over UCLA in the Coliseum (Oregon State's last in the Coliseum) and a win to snap Arizona State's 21 game winning streak, becoming only the second team in history to snap three winning streaks of more than 20 games. (The other was Notre Dame. Miami has since matched Notre Dame and Oregon State's record). In game 8, Oregon State led 24-3 over eventual Pac-8 Champion Stanford but allowed the Indians to come back and win 31-24. If Oregon State had held on to win, the Beavers and Indians each would have finished tied in losses atop the Pac-8. The Pac-8 could have then voted Oregon State the conference champion based upon the head-to-head win. Instead, Stanford went 8-3 and won the conference and the Rose Bowl 13-12 over #4 Michigan. Because of the loss to Stanford and subsequent 5-6 season, pressure was put on Andros to modify his offense. However, he Andros had no business running any other offense. And the 2-9, 2-9, 3-8, and 1-10 seasons that followed are proof of that. Plus, the fact that African-Americans tended to avoid Andros, because of the Fred Milton Affair did not help one iota. The solution to play a home-and-home with Grambling in 1975 and 1985 was a dopey one. Wilhelm's injury in Shreveport in 1985 was a direct result of that dopey decision and helped to set Kragthorpe back a couple of years. Andros was high on Fertig and wanted to hire him to help him as an assistant, but the AD could not put enough money together to make it happen. Fertig was hired over Rich Brooks, an assistant coach for the 49ers, and Terry Donahue, an assistant at UCLA. When Dick Vermeil bolted for the Eagles after the season ended, Donahue wound up as head coach of UCLA. Over the next 20 years, UCLA finished with a winning record 16 times, won five Pac-8/10 titles, and won three Rose Bowls (lost another), a Fiesta Bowl (tied another), and a Cotton Bowl. UCLA also played in the Liberty, Bluebonnet, Freedom, Aloha (twice), and Sun Bowl and would have played in another bowl game in 1980, except for the fact that UCLA was on probation for playing an ineligible player the previous season. Prior to Donahue being hired as head coach UCLA had only won two bowl games in its history and had only posted one 10-win season. Over the next 20 years, Donahue would win eight bowl games and post three 10-win seasons. Oregon State chose the only bad choice. Fertig was fired and went on to be an assistant AD and broadcaster for USC. When his nephew Todd Marinovich was choosing schools, Fertig was one of the loudest trying to push Marinovich to USC. The end result was that Oregon and UCLA took off, and Oregon State got worse. Avezzano was a great assistant coach but a terrible head coach. Andros' last try at hiring a head coach was in 1984. He wanted to hire Dennis Erickson, which would have been a brilliant hire. Unfortunately, John Byrne had been selected to be President at Oregon State, and Byrne thought he knew better than to rush in and hire Erickson. (Maybe it was too easy? He expected a trap?) Oregon State waited and waited and waited until after most of the obvious selections, including Erickson, pulled their names out, almost leaving Kragthorpe, who had been out of coaching for two years, as the default selection. When Andros complained about Byrne's meddling to the media, Byrne had him "promoted" to a fundraiser for Oregon State athletics, so he could hire a more compliant AD. He found the man in Lynn Snyder. Snyder is, of course, famous (or infamous) for hiring Jim Anderson to coach basketball. Of course, Snyder also hired the man who wound up replacing him, Dutch Baughman, as the senior associate athletic director. Baughman hired both Pat Casey and Mike Riley as head coaches and enlarged the Valley Football Center. (Prior to coming to Oregon State, Baughman hired Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech.) His men's basketball choice was terrible, but his eye for hiring football and baseball coaches may be unmatched.
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Post by dreambeavr on Jul 16, 2018 17:14:43 GMT -8
Fertig, Avezzano, Kragthorpe . . . a truly stellar lineup! We could have had Mouse Davis but, the hiring committees were never serious about offering him. How things might have been different. Darrell would have come, too!
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Post by Werebeaver on Jul 16, 2018 18:21:10 GMT -8
It's your list, but to me it seems kinda short on the final 4 Andros years when OSU went 2-9, 2-9, 3-8, 1-10. I think elevating Andros to AD rates a mention as he presided over the pathetic Fertig and Avezzano years and their combined 16-81-3 record (7-60-2 in conference). It's incredible that we had any football fans at all by the time Andros stepped down as AD. The seeds to the Streak were sown in 1968. Oregon State was preseason #1 in Playboy and #8 in the AP Poll. However, Jess Lewis qualified for the Olympics and missed the season. Steve Preece got hurt in the first game against Iowa in Iowa City. And Oregon State missed an extra point in the second quarter, which wound up costing the Beavers the game. The Hawkeyes finished sixth in the Big Ten. Three weeks later, #20 Oregon State traveled to play Kentucky in Lexington. Oregon State scored with seven minutes left and opted to play for the tie rather than go for the win. However, the Beavers missed the extra point to lose 35-34. The Wildcats finished 0-7, dead last in the SEC. Oregon State won the next four. The Beavers beat the Sun Devils 28-9, Oregon State's biggest win in the State of Oregon prior to 2003. Oregon State defeated Stanford 29-7, the Beavers' biggest win over the Indians/Cardinals/Cardinal between 1962 and 2006. Oregon State finished the four games by beating UCLA and Tommy Prothro 45-21, the biggest win by the Beavers against the Bruins in Corvallis prior to 1999. Oregon State went to the Coliseum to play #1 USC and had a fourth quarter lead but blew it to fall behind 17-7. The Beavers scored on a 72-yard touchdown pass and recovered the onside kick but fumbled it trying to advance the ball to lose 17-13. Before the onside kick, Oregon State missed three field goals. If Oregon State had defeated USC, the Beavers would have played in the 1969 Rose Bowl rather than the Trojans. In the off-season, Andros riled up Fred Milton. Some of Jess Lewis' associates from his time in Mexico City helped to fan the flames. By the time the 1969 season rolled around, only two African-Americans remained on the roster. Andros had recruited well enough after the 1967 Giant Killers year, that the senior-laden 1971 Oregon State team was able to post a 3-4 record with a win over UCLA in the Coliseum (Oregon State's last in the Coliseum) and a win to snap Arizona State's 21 game winning streak, becoming only the second team in history to snap three winning streaks of more than 20 games. (The other was Notre Dame. Miami has since matched Notre Dame and Oregon State's record). In game 8, Oregon State led 24-3 over eventual Pac-8 Champion Stanford but allowed the Indians to come back and win 31-24. If Oregon State had held on to win, the Beavers and Indians each would have finished tied in losses atop the Pac-8. The Pac-8 could have then voted Oregon State the conference champion based upon the head-to-head win. Instead, Stanford went 8-3 and won the conference and the Rose Bowl 13-12 over #4 Michigan. Because of the loss to Stanford and subsequent 5-6 season, pressure was put on Andros to modify his offense. However, he Andros had no business running any other offense. And the 2-9, 2-9, 3-8, and 1-10 seasons that followed are proof of that. Plus, the fact that African-Americans tended to avoid Andros, because of the Fred Milton Affair did not help one iota. The solution to play a home-and-home with Grambling in 1975 and 1985 was a dopey one. Wilhelm's injury in Shreveport in 1985 was a direct result of that dopey decision and helped to set Kragthorpe back a couple of years. Andros was high on Fertig and wanted to hire him to help him as an assistant, but the AD could not put enough money together to make it happen. Fertig was hired over Rich Brooks, an assistant coach for the 49ers, and Terry Donahue, an assistant at UCLA. When Dick Vermeil bolted for the Eagles after the season ended, Donahue wound up as head coach of UCLA. Over the next 20 years, UCLA finished with a winning record 16 times, won five Pac-8/10 titles, and won three Rose Bowls (lost another), a Fiesta Bowl (tied another), and a Cotton Bowl. UCLA also played in the Liberty, Bluebonnet, Freedom, Aloha (twice), and Sun Bowl and would have played in another bowl game in 1980, except for the fact that UCLA was on probation for playing an ineligible player the previous season. Prior to Donahue being hired as head coach UCLA had only won two bowl games in its history and had only posted one 10-win season. Over the next 20 years, Donahue would win eight bowl games and post three 10-win seasons. Oregon State chose the only bad choice. Fertig was fired and went on to be an assistant AD and broadcaster for USC. When his nephew Todd Marinovich was choosing schools, Fertig was one of the loudest trying to push Marinovich to USC. The end result was that Oregon and UCLA took off, and Oregon State got worse. Avezzano was a great assistant coach but a terrible head coach. Andros' last try at hiring a head coach was in 1984. He wanted to hire Dennis Erickson, which would have been a brilliant hire. Unfortunately, John Byrne had been selected to be President at Oregon State, and Byrne thought he knew better than to rush in and hire Erickson. (Maybe it was too easy? He expected a trap?) Oregon State waited and waited and waited until after most of the obvious selections, including Erickson, pulled their names out, almost leaving Kragthorpe, who had been out of coaching for two years, as the default selection. When Andros complained about Byrne's meddling to the media, Byrne had him "promoted" to a fundraiser for Oregon State athletics, so he could hire a more compliant AD. He found the man in Lynn Snyder. Snyder is, of course, famous (or infamous) for hiring Jim Anderson to coach basketball. Of course, Snyder also hired the man who wound up replacing him, Dutch Baughman, as the senior associate athletic director. Baughman hired both Pat Casey and Mike Riley as head coaches and enlarged the Valley Football Center. (Prior to coming to Oregon State, Baughman hired Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech.) His men's basketball choice was terrible, but his eye for hiring football and baseball coaches may be unmatched. So Dee Andros was just a helpless victim of circumstances beyond his control. That’s one way to view it.
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EOBeav
Freshman
Posts: 499
Grad Year: 1989, 2002
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Post by EOBeav on Jul 16, 2018 18:27:59 GMT -8
Yeah, if he doesn’t leave, we might have went 4-8! Rejoice! You make my point exactly. Four wins with 3M as our QB last year. GA still gets canned and we get to keep our (experienced senior) QB for CJSmith to have for a year while he builds his program. That's a far preferable scenario to what we have right now.
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Jul 16, 2018 18:49:44 GMT -8
Luton over 3M probably led to GAG realizing how far over his ski's he and his staff were. If that is what led GAG to quit, then I guess it was a good thing long term for the program.
Go Beavs
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Jul 16, 2018 18:54:47 GMT -8
Yeah, if he doesn’t leave, we might have went 4-8! Rejoice! You make my point exactly. Four wins with 3M as our QB last year. GA still gets canned and we get to keep our (experienced senior) QB for CJSmith to have for a year while he builds his program. That's a far preferable scenario to what we have right now. 4 wins in '17 and I doubt GAG gets the boot. What we have now,namely CJS, is far preferable than another season of whack-a-mole with GA leading the troops.
Go Beavs!!
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Post by ee1990 on Jul 16, 2018 19:51:15 GMT -8
You make my point exactly. Four wins with 3M as our QB last year. GA still gets canned and we get to keep our (experienced senior) QB for CJSmith to have for a year while he builds his program. That's a far preferable scenario to what we have right now. 4 wins in '17 and I doubt GAG gets the boot. What we have now,namely CJS, is far preferable than another season of whack-a-mole with GA leading the troops.
Go Beavs!!
If 4 wins would have kept his job then there is a far bigger problem with our program than who the head coach is.
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Post by beaverchew on Jul 16, 2018 20:25:37 GMT -8
The seeds to the Streak were sown in 1968. Oregon State was preseason #1 in Playboy and #8 in the AP Poll. However, Jess Lewis qualified for the Olympics and missed the season. Steve Preece got hurt in the first game against Iowa in Iowa City. And Oregon State missed an extra point in the second quarter, which wound up costing the Beavers the game. The Hawkeyes finished sixth in the Big Ten. Three weeks later, #20 Oregon State traveled to play Kentucky in Lexington. Oregon State scored with seven minutes left and opted to play for the tie rather than go for the win. However, the Beavers missed the extra point to lose 35-34. The Wildcats finished 0-7, dead last in the SEC. Oregon State won the next four. The Beavers beat the Sun Devils 28-9, Oregon State's biggest win in the State of Oregon prior to 2003. Oregon State defeated Stanford 29-7, the Beavers' biggest win over the Indians/Cardinals/Cardinal between 1962 and 2006. Oregon State finished the four games by beating UCLA and Tommy Prothro 45-21, the biggest win by the Beavers against the Bruins in Corvallis prior to 1999. Oregon State went to the Coliseum to play #1 USC and had a fourth quarter lead but blew it to fall behind 17-7. The Beavers scored on a 72-yard touchdown pass and recovered the onside kick but fumbled it trying to advance the ball to lose 17-13. Before the onside kick, Oregon State missed three field goals. If Oregon State had defeated USC, the Beavers would have played in the 1969 Rose Bowl rather than the Trojans. In the off-season, Andros riled up Fred Milton. Some of Jess Lewis' associates from his time in Mexico City helped to fan the flames. By the time the 1969 season rolled around, only two African-Americans remained on the roster. Andros had recruited well enough after the 1967 Giant Killers year, that the senior-laden 1971 Oregon State team was able to post a 3-4 record with a win over UCLA in the Coliseum (Oregon State's last in the Coliseum) and a win to snap Arizona State's 21 game winning streak, becoming only the second team in history to snap three winning streaks of more than 20 games. (The other was Notre Dame. Miami has since matched Notre Dame and Oregon State's record). In game 8, Oregon State led 24-3 over eventual Pac-8 Champion Stanford but allowed the Indians to come back and win 31-24. If Oregon State had held on to win, the Beavers and Indians each would have finished tied in losses atop the Pac-8. The Pac-8 could have then voted Oregon State the conference champion based upon the head-to-head win. Instead, Stanford went 8-3 and won the conference and the Rose Bowl 13-12 over #4 Michigan. Because of the loss to Stanford and subsequent 5-6 season, pressure was put on Andros to modify his offense. However, he Andros had no business running any other offense. And the 2-9, 2-9, 3-8, and 1-10 seasons that followed are proof of that. Plus, the fact that African-Americans tended to avoid Andros, because of the Fred Milton Affair did not help one iota. The solution to play a home-and-home with Grambling in 1975 and 1985 was a dopey one. Wilhelm's injury in Shreveport in 1985 was a direct result of that dopey decision and helped to set Kragthorpe back a couple of years. Andros was high on Fertig and wanted to hire him to help him as an assistant, but the AD could not put enough money together to make it happen. Fertig was hired over Rich Brooks, an assistant coach for the 49ers, and Terry Donahue, an assistant at UCLA. When Dick Vermeil bolted for the Eagles after the season ended, Donahue wound up as head coach of UCLA. Over the next 20 years, UCLA finished with a winning record 16 times, won five Pac-8/10 titles, and won three Rose Bowls (lost another), a Fiesta Bowl (tied another), and a Cotton Bowl. UCLA also played in the Liberty, Bluebonnet, Freedom, Aloha (twice), and Sun Bowl and would have played in another bowl game in 1980, except for the fact that UCLA was on probation for playing an ineligible player the previous season. Prior to Donahue being hired as head coach UCLA had only won two bowl games in its history and had only posted one 10-win season. Over the next 20 years, Donahue would win eight bowl games and post three 10-win seasons. Oregon State chose the only bad choice. Fertig was fired and went on to be an assistant AD and broadcaster for USC. When his nephew Todd Marinovich was choosing schools, Fertig was one of the loudest trying to push Marinovich to USC. The end result was that Oregon and UCLA took off, and Oregon State got worse. Avezzano was a great assistant coach but a terrible head coach. Andros' last try at hiring a head coach was in 1984. He wanted to hire Dennis Erickson, which would have been a brilliant hire. Unfortunately, John Byrne had been selected to be President at Oregon State, and Byrne thought he knew better than to rush in and hire Erickson. (Maybe it was too easy? He expected a trap?) Oregon State waited and waited and waited until after most of the obvious selections, including Erickson, pulled their names out, almost leaving Kragthorpe, who had been out of coaching for two years, as the default selection. When Andros complained about Byrne's meddling to the media, Byrne had him "promoted" to a fundraiser for Oregon State athletics, so he could hire a more compliant AD. He found the man in Lynn Snyder. Snyder is, of course, famous (or infamous) for hiring Jim Anderson to coach basketball. Of course, Snyder also hired the man who wound up replacing him, Dutch Baughman, as the senior associate athletic director. Baughman hired both Pat Casey and Mike Riley as head coaches and enlarged the Valley Football Center. (Prior to coming to Oregon State, Baughman hired Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech.) His men's basketball choice was terrible, but his eye for hiring football and baseball coaches may be unmatched. My uncle was on the Brooks/Fertig selection committee. I remember how disappointed he and my Aunt were they picked Fertig. To me that sealed the fate of the next 20+ years of Beaver football futility Rich Brooks would have been a great Beaver hire and could have recovered from the mistakes that Dee made. My Brothers in Law (twins) played for Fertig and Avezzano. Their opinion is that both coaches were on a short leash, there was a lot of football decisions made in the AD office by Dee. I'm not sure how well we can judge the abilities of either coach, especially Avezzano based on the amount of political meddling that was going on.
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Jul 17, 2018 8:54:31 GMT -8
4 wins in '17 and I doubt GAG gets the boot. What we have now,namely CJS, is far preferable than another season of whack-a-mole with GA leading the troops.
Go Beavs!!
If 4 wins would have kept his job then there is a far bigger problem with our program than who the head coach is. Short of never hiring GAG in the first place, the best possible outcome was that he quit. 4 wins, his personal pick for the AD, and his buy-out package all but guarantees he would still be OSU's coach.
Go Beavs!!
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Post by biggieorange on Jul 17, 2018 9:56:56 GMT -8
McMaryion on 2016 OSU season: "Here's how bad things were that year...at one point we had seven quarterbacks competing for the starting spot. Seven. None of us took a firm hold of the position, and in practice you felt like you were getting one rep every 30 minutes. It can make you question if you really love football, but it can also make you question if you're even any good." Those comments say so much about the state of the program under GA. A rudderless ship. linkI like this quote the best: "I was ready to lead the program to new heights in 2017. Or so I thought. Over the off season, OSU signed a new QB, a 6-7 quarterback who was an All-American at the Junior College level. On August 1 of last year, only a week into Fall Camp, he was named as our starting quarterback. That news was really difficult to take and hit my teammates just as much if not more." It is incomprehensible just how bad of a coach Gary Andersen is. Gary Andersen showed right there he doesn't respect loyalty or hard work. He and he alone imploded his team with his decision to sign Luton, despite 3M's growth and progression at the QB position. and 2017 season reflected a team that didn't care and didn't respect their head coach. I feel bad for Luton. Kid just wanted his shot too. His opportunity. but it was a signing that never should of happened in a million years. But what is done is done. I hope he is great this season. Pure speculation, but imagine after Moeveo's Freshman year he went out and got a JC transfer and then put the JC guy at number 2 on the depth chart at the beginning of fall camp. This was the issue with Gary he got totally locked up, second guessing himself. I dont' think he is an idiot, but he started getting away from what he really believed and lost confidence in himself and his staff. What is weird and inexplicable is that he did it right after the Civil War win and McM seemingly finding his groove. Like there were many things to improve at OSU, why keep messing with the QB/ Offense? It was also a subject Gary had the LEAST direct technical ability in one could argue. I'll never understand. All that said, the unpredictable offensive passing performance, bizarre rotation, and frequency of changes of the QB's should have been expected given the coaching lineage (Utes).
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 17, 2018 12:58:28 GMT -8
My uncle was on the Brooks/Fertig selection committee. I remember how disappointed he and my Aunt were they picked Fertig. To me that sealed the fate of the next 20+ years of Beaver football futility Rich Brooks would have been a great Beaver hire and could have recovered from the mistakes that Dee made. My Brothers in Law (twins) played for Fertig and Avezzano. Their opinion is that both coaches were on a short leash, there was a lot of football decisions made in the AD office by Dee. I'm not sure how well we can judge the abilities of either coach, especially Avezzano based on the amount of political meddling that was going on. I personally think that Fertig was always going to be terrible. And whether he could coach or not, Avezzano was never going to be a great face of the program. And there are enough bad decisions that you can point to in Avezzano's five years that were not someone second-guessing him, where you can say definitively that Avezzano was never going to be a great head coach. I tend to agree with you, though, that Avezzano had a lot working against him, so it is difficult to definitively say that he would have been terrible, if given a bit more latitude and allowed to continue building. Most of the stars from the 1985 team were Avezzano recruits. There was undeniably some great talent on that team.
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