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Post by avidbeaver on Aug 1, 2020 16:49:13 GMT -8
His stint as interim in 2019 didn't go so well. The comparisons to JA then were accurate. Great recruiter, great teacher, great assistant, but not a good fit as HC for an elite program. Look at who we lost when he coached in 2019. Casey would have had very similar results if he stayed. Very unfair to compare him to JA who had Payton his first year and won a league title. The Beavers did lose a lot. The problem was that the Beavers never got better towards the end of the year. In fact, in my opinion they got worse. If Casey was still around they would at least been better at the end versus at the beginning. I am not convinced it would it would have been the same under Casey. Casey definitely wouldn't have messed with the lineup as much as Bailey did at the back end of the season. Doesn't matter if players are struggling.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 3, 2020 14:11:40 GMT -8
No. Not even close. No. Bailey is a very poor man's Casey. Bailey is a phenomenal recruiter and assistant coach, but he is not a top-end head coach. And he did not have a Bailey to take over his spot. So we should have repeated after losing 3 1st round draft picks and one of our best pitchers of all time? Plus, 2-3 of our other top pitchers got hurt. That 2019 team wasn’t going anywhere. Adley was all that team had. Casey would not have fared much better, if at all. I guess that makes Mitch a poor man’s Bailey since he went 5-9. Bailey finished losing the final three games at Goss: USC (5-0), Cincinnati (7-6) and Creighton (4-1). The last time that Pat Casey lost three consecutive games at Goss? March 24-31, 2012: National Champion Arizona (5-4. Max Gordon finished at third. A freshman Michael Conforto struck out swinging with one out. Dylan Davis swung at the first pitch and grounded out to third.), National Champion Arizona (7-5) and Washington (3-2 in 10 innings. Ben Wetzler walked the lead-off hitter and then allowed the lead-off runner to score on a one-out double. Wetzler then pitched 7 2/3 innings of two-hit ball, leaving in the ninth with the score knotted at one. Jake Lamb chased Tony Bryant in the 10th. Matt Boyd came on with runners at the corners. A misplayed squeeze with one out ultimately allowed two runners to score--Lamb scoring the winning run with two outs. After Oregon State pulled within 3-2, Conforto flew out to center with Gordon on third.). That 2012 Arizona team was stacked. The 1-5 and 9 hitters all made it to the Show. Three are still in the majors. One is now Mexico, one is now in Korea, and the other is a free agent. (Field likely would make a minor league roster somewhere, if not for coronavirus.) The Wildcats finished the season tied for UCLA atop the Pac-12, but the Bruins won the conference crown on tiebreakers. Arizona and UCLA each went a perfect 5-0 into Omaha. The Wildcats won the game in Omaha 4-0 and then beat Florida State 10-3 to advance to the Championship Series against South Carolina. Arizona won both games 5-1 and 4-1. Conforto was a true freshman. He started out as a pinch hitter against Santa Barbara before becoming a lineup mainstay by the end of the Santa Barbara series. The Arizona and Washington series were his first games against Pac-12 competition at Goss. (2012 was also the first year of the Pac-12. The Pac-12's RPI has yet to recover.) The top three teams in the Pac-12 each were given Regionals. Oregon State finished fourth and was placed in a nightmare Regional against #7 overall LSU. The Beavers still took the Tigers into extras in the Championship Game before bowing out. Bailey also lost four straight home games. The last time that Casey lost four straight home games? April 10-18, 2010: UCLA (3-1 in 16 innings. Tanner Robles only gave up a run on five hits through 6 1/3, but Trevor Bauer did not allow a run into the ninth. Dan Klein replaced Bauer. Danny Hayes led off the ninth with a double to left center. Tyler Smith ran for Hayes, and Parker Berberet drove Smith home to knot the game at one. Oregon State had bases loaded in the 10th and a runner in scoring position in the 11th, 12th, 13th and 15th but could not score.), UCLA (8-2), Stanford (14-6), Stanford (5-3 in 10 innings. Colin Walsh had a two-run triple and hit the two-run home run in the 10th to win the game.) and Stanford (10-7). UCLA was loaded. The Bruins' three starters all wound up in The Show (with Bauer and Gerrit Cole both being All-Stars), as did two relievers. UCLA went to College World Series. Rob Rasmussen got beat in game three, which necessitated Trevor Bauer pitching in game four. Gerritt Cole got shelled in game one against South Carolina. Rasmussen returned on three days' rest and pitched great, but Erik Goeddel gave up an unearned run after Dean Espy, a decent third baseman but generally poor first baseman, misplayed a ball to his right, which allowed South Carolina to knot the game at one. In extras, the usually-dependable Dan Klein (3rd round, #85) gave up a walk, a sacrifice and an RBI single. Arizona State won the Pac-10 and received the #1 overall seed, advancing to Omaha, just to be eliminated by South Carolina on the other side of the bracket. Washington State finished third and was sent to Fayetteville, losing to Arkansas 6-4 in the deciding game. Arizona State would bounce Arkansas in the Super Regionals. Stanford was sent to Fullerton and were eliminated by Fullerton. UCLA beat Fullerton in 10 innings to stay alive before winning the decisive game three. California finished fifth was sent to Norman and lost to North Carolina and Oral Roberts. Oklahoma advanced to the College World Series before being eliminated by South Carolina in extras. Oregon finished sixth and was sent to Tallahassee, losing two straight to Florida State by two runs. Florida State lost two to TCU by a combined 12 runs. Oregon State finished seventh. The Beavers were sent to Gainesville, losing to Florida and Florida Atlantic. The Gators would advance to the College World Series before going two and BBQ. Arizona finished eighth (and because Utah was not in the conference yet to weigh down the collective RPI) and were sent to Fort Worth. Arizona lost to TCU by six and Baylor by two. TCU ultimately was eliminated by UCLA. In no universe are Bailey and Casey in the same conversation. 2019 may not have been 2018 bad, but they were not 2010 bad, and they were not playing 2010-level competition. If Oregon State was hosting with Casey at the helm, they would not have went two and BBQ at their own Tournament. The Beavers would not have lost four consecutive games at Goss. There is no way. The 2019 team was not 2010 bad. And I will say it again that Oregon State got put in a pillowy-soft half of the bracket last year. The problem was that Oregon State had the best two- and three-seeds in the entire field show up in Corvallis with a tricky four to boot. If Oregon State could have snuck by Michigan and Creighton (and just would have played mediocre fundamental baseball against Cincinnati as opposed to the flat-out poor baseball that we saw), you could pencil Casey into a Championship Series against Vanderbilt. A great head coach does not implode down the stretch like what we saw. Bailey is not a great head coach. He is a phenomenal assistant. No arguments here, just not a great head coach. I am not sure that Canham is the answer, but Bailey was definitively not the answer.
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Post by jdogge on Aug 3, 2020 14:29:49 GMT -8
Is it possible that he just wanted to retire?
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Post by Judge Smails on Aug 3, 2020 15:37:23 GMT -8
So we should have repeated after losing 3 1st round draft picks and one of our best pitchers of all time? Plus, 2-3 of our other top pitchers got hurt. That 2019 team wasn’t going anywhere. Adley was all that team had. Casey would not have fared much better, if at all. I guess that makes Mitch a poor man’s Bailey since he went 5-9. Bailey finished losing the final three games at Goss: USC (5-0), Cincinnati (7-6) and Creighton (4-1). The last time that Pat Casey lost three consecutive games at Goss? March 24-31, 2012: National Champion Arizona (5-4. Max Gordon finished at third. A freshman Michael Conforto struck out swinging with one out. Dylan Davis swung at the first pitch and grounded out to third.), National Champion Arizona (7-5) and Washington (3-2 in 10 innings. Ben Wetzler walked the lead-off hitter and then allowed the lead-off runner to score on a one-out double. Wetzler then pitched 7 2/3 innings of two-hit ball, leaving in the ninth with the score knotted at one. Jake Lamb chased Tony Bryant in the 10th. Matt Boyd came on with runners at the corners. A misplayed squeeze with one out ultimately allowed two runners to score--Lamb scoring the winning run with two outs. After Oregon State pulled within 3-2, Conforto flew out to center with Gordon on third.). That 2012 Arizona team was stacked. The 1-5 and 9 hitters all made it to the Show. Three are still in the majors. One is now Mexico, one is now in Korea, and the other is a free agent. (Field likely would make a minor league roster somewhere, if not for coronavirus.) The Wildcats finished the season tied for UCLA atop the Pac-12, but the Bruins won the conference crown on tiebreakers. Arizona and UCLA each went a perfect 5-0 into Omaha. The Wildcats won the game in Omaha 4-0 and then beat Florida State 10-3 to advance to the Championship Series against South Carolina. Arizona won both games 5-1 and 4-1. Conforto was a true freshman. He started out as a pinch hitter against Santa Barbara before becoming a lineup mainstay by the end of the Santa Barbara series. The Arizona and Washington series were his first games against Pac-12 competition at Goss. (2012 was also the first year of the Pac-12. The Pac-12's RPI has yet to recover.) The top three teams in the Pac-12 each were given Regionals. Oregon State finished fourth and was placed in a nightmare Regional against #7 overall LSU. The Beavers still took the Tigers into extras in the Championship Game before bowing out. Bailey also lost four straight home games. The last time that Casey lost four straight home games? April 10-18, 2010: UCLA (3-1 in 16 innings. Tanner Robles only gave up a run on five hits through 6 1/3, but Trevor Bauer did not allow a run into the ninth. Dan Klein replaced Bauer. Danny Hayes led off the ninth with a double to left center. Tyler Smith ran for Hayes, and Parker Berberet drove Smith home to knot the game at one. Oregon State had bases loaded in the 10th and a runner in scoring position in the 11th, 12th, 13th and 15th but could not score.), UCLA (8-2), Stanford (14-6), Stanford (5-3 in 10 innings. Colin Walsh had a two-run triple and hit the two-run home run in the 10th to win the game.) and Stanford (10-7). UCLA was loaded. The Bruins' three starters all wound up in The Show (with Bauer and Gerrit Cole both being All-Stars), as did two relievers. UCLA went to College World Series. Rob Rasmussen got beat in game three, which necessitated Trevor Bauer pitching in game four. Gerritt Cole got shelled in game one against South Carolina. Rasmussen returned on three days' rest and pitched great, but Erik Goeddel gave up an unearned run after Dean Espy, a decent third baseman but generally poor first baseman, misplayed a ball to his right, which allowed South Carolina to knot the game at one. In extras, the usually-dependable Dan Klein (3rd round, #85) gave up a walk, a sacrifice and an RBI single. Arizona State won the Pac-10 and received the #1 overall seed, advancing to Omaha, just to be eliminated by South Carolina on the other side of the bracket. Washington State finished third and was sent to Fayetteville, losing to Arkansas 6-4 in the deciding game. Arizona State would bounce Arkansas in the Super Regionals. Stanford was sent to Fullerton and were eliminated by Fullerton. UCLA beat Fullerton in 10 innings to stay alive before winning the decisive game three. California finished fifth was sent to Norman and lost to North Carolina and Oral Roberts. Oklahoma advanced to the College World Series before being eliminated by South Carolina in extras. Oregon finished sixth and was sent to Tallahassee, losing two straight to Florida State by two runs. Florida State lost two to TCU by a combined 12 runs. Oregon State finished seventh. The Beavers were sent to Gainesville, losing to Florida and Florida Atlantic. The Gators would advance to the College World Series before going two and BBQ. Arizona finished eighth (and because Utah was not in the conference yet to weigh down the collective RPI) and were sent to Fort Worth. Arizona lost to TCU by six and Baylor by two. TCU ultimately was eliminated by UCLA. In no universe are Bailey and Casey in the same conversation. 2019 may not have been 2018 bad, but they were not 2010 bad, and they were not playing 2010-level competition. If Oregon State was hosting with Casey at the helm, they would not have went two and BBQ at their own Tournament. The Beavers would not have lost four consecutive games at Goss. There is no way. The 2019 team was not 2010 bad. And I will say it again that Oregon State got put in a pillowy-soft half of the bracket last year. The problem was that Oregon State had the best two- and three-seeds in the entire field show up in Corvallis with a tricky four to boot. If Oregon State could have snuck by Michigan and Creighton (and just would have played mediocre fundamental baseball against Cincinnati as opposed to the flat-out poor baseball that we saw), you could pencil Casey into a Championship Series against Vanderbilt. A great head coach does not implode down the stretch like what we saw. Bailey is not a great head coach. He is a phenomenal assistant. No arguments here, just not a great head coach. I am not sure that Canham is the answer, but Bailey was definitively not the answer. I thought we were pretty good in 2018. You can quote all the stats you want. He did not have a good line-up to work with in 2019. That was our weakest team in a long time. That team with the best coach ever wouldn't have sniffed Omaha, yet alone the Championship Series. If you were arguing that Pat could have snuck into a Super with that team, I might buy that, but that 2019 team did not have the talent to make it to Omaha. I think the 2010 team that you mentioned had much more consistent hitting. Bailey did not implode.....he had one hitter on his whole team and he had a lot of pitchers that were injured. You sound like a whiny uck fan or a ND Football fan......sometimes you just don't have championship talent.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 3, 2020 16:14:32 GMT -8
I don't believe we had championship talent in 2019.
I do think Pat lost the respect of the veterans when he benched Armstrong and Taylor, who had played such big roles in 2018, after a very short trial as starters.
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Post by Judge Smails on Aug 3, 2020 16:26:17 GMT -8
I don't believe we had championship talent in 2019. I do think Pat lost the respect of the veterans when he benched Armstrong and Taylor, who had played such big roles in 2018, after a very short trial as starters. I agree on Armstrong, but Taylor was just awful when he played that year.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 3, 2020 17:26:53 GMT -8
I don't believe we had championship talent in 2019. I do think Pat lost the respect of the veterans when he benched Armstrong and Taylor, who had played such big roles in 2018, after a very short trial as starters. I agree on Armstrong, but Taylor was just awful when he played that year. I think Ober had a 4-for-52 streak in there. Zak started poorly but should have had a longer leash, IMHO. But I agree he had a terrible senior year.
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Post by beaverboilermaker on Aug 3, 2020 19:33:17 GMT -8
So we should have repeated after losing 3 1st round draft picks and one of our best pitchers of all time? Plus, 2-3 of our other top pitchers got hurt. That 2019 team wasn’t going anywhere. Adley was all that team had. Casey would not have fared much better, if at all. I guess that makes Mitch a poor man’s Bailey since he went 5-9. Bailey finished losing the final three games at Goss: USC (5-0), Cincinnati (7-6) and Creighton (4-1). The last time that Pat Casey lost three consecutive games at Goss? March 24-31, 2012: National Champion Arizona (5-4. Max Gordon finished at third. A freshman Michael Conforto struck out swinging with one out. Dylan Davis swung at the first pitch and grounded out to third.), National Champion Arizona (7-5) and Washington (3-2 in 10 innings. Ben Wetzler walked the lead-off hitter and then allowed the lead-off runner to score on a one-out double. Wetzler then pitched 7 2/3 innings of two-hit ball, leaving in the ninth with the score knotted at one. Jake Lamb chased Tony Bryant in the 10th. Matt Boyd came on with runners at the corners. A misplayed squeeze with one out ultimately allowed two runners to score--Lamb scoring the winning run with two outs. After Oregon State pulled within 3-2, Conforto flew out to center with Gordon on third.). That 2012 Arizona team was stacked. The 1-5 and 9 hitters all made it to the Show. Three are still in the majors. One is now Mexico, one is now in Korea, and the other is a free agent. (Field likely would make a minor league roster somewhere, if not for coronavirus.) The Wildcats finished the season tied for UCLA atop the Pac-12, but the Bruins won the conference crown on tiebreakers. Arizona and UCLA each went a perfect 5-0 into Omaha. The Wildcats won the game in Omaha 4-0 and then beat Florida State 10-3 to advance to the Championship Series against South Carolina. Arizona won both games 5-1 and 4-1. Conforto was a true freshman. He started out as a pinch hitter against Santa Barbara before becoming a lineup mainstay by the end of the Santa Barbara series. The Arizona and Washington series were his first games against Pac-12 competition at Goss. (2012 was also the first year of the Pac-12. The Pac-12's RPI has yet to recover.) The top three teams in the Pac-12 each were given Regionals. Oregon State finished fourth and was placed in a nightmare Regional against #7 overall LSU. The Beavers still took the Tigers into extras in the Championship Game before bowing out. Bailey also lost four straight home games. The last time that Casey lost four straight home games? April 10-18, 2010: UCLA (3-1 in 16 innings. Tanner Robles only gave up a run on five hits through 6 1/3, but Trevor Bauer did not allow a run into the ninth. Dan Klein replaced Bauer. Danny Hayes led off the ninth with a double to left center. Tyler Smith ran for Hayes, and Parker Berberet drove Smith home to knot the game at one. Oregon State had bases loaded in the 10th and a runner in scoring position in the 11th, 12th, 13th and 15th but could not score.), UCLA (8-2), Stanford (14-6), Stanford (5-3 in 10 innings. Colin Walsh had a two-run triple and hit the two-run home run in the 10th to win the game.) and Stanford (10-7). UCLA was loaded. The Bruins' three starters all wound up in The Show (with Bauer and Gerrit Cole both being All-Stars), as did two relievers. UCLA went to College World Series. Rob Rasmussen got beat in game three, which necessitated Trevor Bauer pitching in game four. Gerritt Cole got shelled in game one against South Carolina. Rasmussen returned on three days' rest and pitched great, but Erik Goeddel gave up an unearned run after Dean Espy, a decent third baseman but generally poor first baseman, misplayed a ball to his right, which allowed South Carolina to knot the game at one. In extras, the usually-dependable Dan Klein (3rd round, #85) gave up a walk, a sacrifice and an RBI single. Arizona State won the Pac-10 and received the #1 overall seed, advancing to Omaha, just to be eliminated by South Carolina on the other side of the bracket. Washington State finished third and was sent to Fayetteville, losing to Arkansas 6-4 in the deciding game. Arizona State would bounce Arkansas in the Super Regionals. Stanford was sent to Fullerton and were eliminated by Fullerton. UCLA beat Fullerton in 10 innings to stay alive before winning the decisive game three. California finished fifth was sent to Norman and lost to North Carolina and Oral Roberts. Oklahoma advanced to the College World Series before being eliminated by South Carolina in extras. Oregon finished sixth and was sent to Tallahassee, losing two straight to Florida State by two runs. Florida State lost two to TCU by a combined 12 runs. Oregon State finished seventh. The Beavers were sent to Gainesville, losing to Florida and Florida Atlantic. The Gators would advance to the College World Series before going two and BBQ. Arizona finished eighth (and because Utah was not in the conference yet to weigh down the collective RPI) and were sent to Fort Worth. Arizona lost to TCU by six and Baylor by two. TCU ultimately was eliminated by UCLA. In no universe are Bailey and Casey in the same conversation. 2019 may not have been 2018 bad, but they were not 2010 bad, and they were not playing 2010-level competition. If Oregon State was hosting with Casey at the helm, they would not have went two and BBQ at their own Tournament. The Beavers would not have lost four consecutive games at Goss. There is no way. The 2019 team was not 2010 bad. And I will say it again that Oregon State got put in a pillowy-soft half of the bracket last year. The problem was that Oregon State had the best two- and three-seeds in the entire field show up in Corvallis with a tricky four to boot. If Oregon State could have snuck by Michigan and Creighton (and just would have played mediocre fundamental baseball against Cincinnati as opposed to the flat-out poor baseball that we saw), you could pencil Casey into a Championship Series against Vanderbilt. A great head coach does not implode down the stretch like what we saw. Bailey is not a great head coach. He is a phenomenal assistant. No arguments here, just not a great head coach. I am not sure that Canham is the answer, but Bailey was definitively not the answer. Ima gonna reply to this one later, or maybe not, 'cause that's a lot to digest, and I'm watching the ChiSox!
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Post by 56chevy on Aug 3, 2020 20:56:15 GMT -8
It just doesn't matter. Pat Bailey is a class act and was a very important part of an incredible run over a number of years. It was a hell of a great time. Let's thank him from the bottom of our hearts and be done with it.
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Post by beaver56 on Aug 4, 2020 7:07:40 GMT -8
It just doesn't matter. Pat Bailey is a class act and was a very important part of an incredible run over a number of years. It was a hell of a great time. Let's thank him from the bottom of our hearts and be done with it. Agree 100% Great man and great role model for the young men of the Beaver teams. Wish him the best.
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