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Post by orangeattack on Apr 17, 2023 16:18:37 GMT -8
I mean, there is always going to be a bit of "sour grapes" or "we didn't want him anyway" when guys leave the program. It's less for defensive players than it is for offensive players and QB is the lightning rod of the entire offense so of course those sentiments are going to be amplified. It's simple human nature, the way the person who gets dumped convinces themselves that they hate their ex. I do find it weird when some of our fans are proverbially pining for their ex and saying that the new hot chick better measure up or you won't be happy. I know you don't say that directly but that is definitely the implication when you say that if DJU steps in and lights in up, you will be happy. Complete non-sequitur: Always Sunny has absolutely ruined my ability to use the word "implication" without hearing Dennis' voice in my head. Are you having relationship troubles right now? Going through some difficulty? You used the relationship analogy twice in your post.No one is pining for the days of Chance. Instead, we should be able to say "Job well done, kid" and let him go rather than rehashing the low points of his career. As for DJU....Some here think he's going to bring it all together for us, the missing link. I don't like counting chickens before they hatch. I have faith in all the Jonathan Smith has done to build the program, but I don't know what DJU's role in that program will look like nor do I know if he will be successful. If he is tapped to lead the team and if he isn't successful, I won't be crying for who might have stayed. I'm not big on coulda, woulda, shoulda. Each year, the team is a unique puzzle and how the pieces all fit together is up to the coaches. No but I have a ton of disdain for my ex haha
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 17, 2023 20:50:59 GMT -8
Chance was good for OSU. If you don't think so, then you weren't watching the same team develop and grow that I watched. The lack of quality receivers is what hurt Chance, Gulbranson, and Gebbia. And that's simply because we have been developing and growing back into a formidable power. If DJU steps into this Beaver team and lights it up, I will be happy. But I won't forget the ones that brought us to this point. And Chance was a big part of that. I mean, there is always going to be a bit of "sour grapes" or "we didn't want him anyway" when guys leave the program. It's less for defensive players than it is for offensive players and QB is the lightning rod of the entire offense so of course those sentiments are going to be amplified. It's simple human nature, the way the person who gets dumped convinces themselves that they hate their ex. I do find it weird when some of our fans are proverbially pining for their ex and saying that the new hot chick better measure up or you won't be happy. I know you don't say that directly but that is definitely the implication when you say that if DJU steps in and lights in up, you will be happy. Complete non-sequitur: Always Sunny has absolutely ruined my ability to use the word "implication" without hearing Dennis' voice in my head.
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Post by woodrow7525 on Apr 18, 2023 19:35:51 GMT -8
I loved Chance! It just seemed like he went away from his strengths and his weaknesses were amplified. He didn’t run when it was open in the last few games, like he did previously. Instead he got sacked or threw a bad pass. His accuracy was worse in the end than Darrell Garretson. Lots of good qb’s lose their go to guy and still excel. In short, he played himself out of the lineup. I can’t agree to DG having better accuracy than anyone. Loved the young man’s heart and grit but he was not an accurate passer during his time at OSU. Having the head coach and roster he did also did him no favors.
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Post by spudbeaver on Apr 18, 2023 19:39:15 GMT -8
I loved Chance! It just seemed like he went away from his strengths and his weaknesses were amplified. He didn’t run when it was open in the last few games, like he did previously. Instead he got sacked or threw a bad pass. His accuracy was worse in the end than Darrell Garretson. Lots of good qb’s lose their go to guy and still excel. In short, he played himself out of the lineup. I can’t agree to DG having better accuracy than anyone. Loved the young man’s heart and grit but he was not an accurate passer during his time at OSU. Having the head coach and roster he did also did him no favors. Couldn’t agree more! Pretty much my point. As I’ve posted here before, I have a ton of respect for Garretson nutting up over and over when he was clearly over matched. That’s on our stupid coach Anderpants. Darrell would’ve been much better off staying in the mountain west.
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Post by ag87 on Apr 18, 2023 20:22:43 GMT -8
I can’t agree to DG having better accuracy than anyone. Loved the young man’s heart and grit but he was not an accurate passer during his time at OSU. Having the head coach and roster he did also did him no favors. Couldn’t agree more! Pretty much my point. As I’ve posted here before, I have a ton of respect for Garretson nutting up over and over when he was clearly over matched. That’s on our stupid coach Anderpants. Darrell would’ve been much better off staying in the mountain west. Agree. DG would have been awesome at Willamette, GeorgeFox or Pacific. I'm not sure he would have or should have started at a Mountain West school. But I have zero animosity and only respect on what he did with the steaming pile of poo he inherited after following his coach here.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 18, 2023 22:02:16 GMT -8
I loved Chance! It just seemed like he went away from his strengths and his weaknesses were amplified. He didn’t run when it was open in the last few games, like he did previously. Instead he got sacked or threw a bad pass. His accuracy was worse in the end than Darrell Garretson. Lots of good qb’s lose their go to guy and still excel. In short, he played himself out of the lineup. Chance's "accuracy" was influenced quite a bit by what he was asked to do. He was being asked to hit 30-50 yard (in air) throws a few times a game. After he went down Gulbranson literally threw maybe 3 of that distance the remainder of the season. The top "long ball" (20 yards + in the air) passers in the NFL are hitting 35-46% www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-top-10-nfl-deep-passers-of-2021-three-qbs-playing-for-new-teams-i and the expected completion rate of 40 yard throws in the NFL is roughly 20% www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-introduction-to-completion-probability-0ap3000000964655Chance made a couple errant throws, and a couple very memorable lazy dumps that were either intercepted or nearly intercepted, but on the whole his accuracy was better than given credit for. That Fresno State game he literally hit the receivers in the hands with catchable balls on all but 4 or 5 passes. There were lots of dropped passes early on, our receivers did a much better job of holding on to the ball the last 7-8 games. Garretson completed 54.8% of his passes here, Nolan 60.8% (compared to Gulbranson's 62.6% while essentially not being asked to extend/stretch the field). It will be curious to see this year's version of QB play. DJU hit just under 60% at Clemson being asked to do just about everything. I expect Ben will be improved, and his arm looked livelier as the season progrssed and the shoulder surgery was more distant. Add in Chiles and his potential and it's a real competitive situation.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 18, 2023 22:42:05 GMT -8
I loved Chance! It just seemed like he went away from his strengths and his weaknesses were amplified. He didn’t run when it was open in the last few games, like he did previously. Instead he got sacked or threw a bad pass. His accuracy was worse in the end than Darrell Garretson. Lots of good qb’s lose their go to guy and still excel. In short, he played himself out of the lineup. Chance's "accuracy" was influenced quite a bit by what he was asked to do. He was being asked to hit 30-50 yard (in air) throws a few times a game. After he went down Gulbranson literally threw maybe 3 of that distance the remainder of the season. The top "long ball" (20 yards + in the air) passers in the NFL are hitting 35-46% www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-top-10-nfl-deep-passers-of-2021-three-qbs-playing-for-new-teams-i and the expected completion rate of 40 yard throws in the NFL is roughly 20% www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-introduction-to-completion-probability-0ap3000000964655Chance made a couple errant throws, and a couple very memorable lazy dumps that were either intercepted or nearly intercepted, but on the whole his accuracy was better than given credit for. That Fresno State game he literally hit the receivers in the hands with catchable balls on all but 4 or 5 passes. There were lots of dropped passes early on, our receivers did a much better job of holding on to the ball the last 7-8 games. Garretson completed 54.8% of his passes here, Nolan 60.8% (compared to Gulbranson's 62.6% while essentially not being asked to extend/stretch the field). It will be curious to see this year's version of QB play. DJU hit just under 60% at Clemson being asked to do just about everything. I expect Ben will be improved, and his arm looked livelier as the season progrssed and the shoulder surgery was more distant. Add in Chiles and his potential and it's a real competitive situation. Something is wrong with Nolan (small hands?), his mechanics (just awful footwork), or both. The dude could not consistently throw a spiral to save his life. He could pull a rabbit out and hit a spot 35 yards downfield every once in a long while, and you can pull up a pass or two to put together a highlight reel. But Nolan needs a ton of work to be a Power Five quarterback, and a full review of all of his tape will make this plain. Maybe someone wants to put in the time and effort and can actually fix what is wrong with Nolan? That is entirely possible. But he won't be the dude who threw ducks on basic flares last year. And maybe Nolan needs someone else to beat that into him. Gulbranson had a much better and consistent ball than Nolan, much easier to catch. He needs work as well, but he is not a tear down and rebuild type project like Nolan. To my eye, it looks like Gulbranson was able to get a better grip more often and get it to places with much less effort. He also actually would square his shoulders and plant, which helped. Nolan kept dancing and kept trying to throw without squaring his shoulders. And it was not a once in a while thing. It was like a once or twice a quarter deal. No bueno. Nolan played like he did not realize that he was mediocre. He thought that he was faster than he was and could throw it farther and more accurately. And that failure to appreciate reality burned him against both USC and Utah. Gulbranson played smart. He played within himself. He is a much better player to try and build a team around. As for digs on receivers, it is humorous (or not) that those "drops" immediately disappeared, when Gulbranson took over. Gulbranson has a lot cleaner ball that is easier to catch. Nolan and his ducks made running and trying to not get killed even more difficult than it normally is. Ultimately, I doubt that Gulbranson (or Nolan for that matter) is better than DJU, but I have been surprised before.
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Post by irimi on Apr 19, 2023 4:40:32 GMT -8
Chance's "accuracy" was influenced quite a bit by what he was asked to do. He was being asked to hit 30-50 yard (in air) throws a few times a game. After he went down Gulbranson literally threw maybe 3 of that distance the remainder of the season. The top "long ball" (20 yards + in the air) passers in the NFL are hitting 35-46% www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-top-10-nfl-deep-passers-of-2021-three-qbs-playing-for-new-teams-i and the expected completion rate of 40 yard throws in the NFL is roughly 20% www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-introduction-to-completion-probability-0ap3000000964655Chance made a couple errant throws, and a couple very memorable lazy dumps that were either intercepted or nearly intercepted, but on the whole his accuracy was better than given credit for. That Fresno State game he literally hit the receivers in the hands with catchable balls on all but 4 or 5 passes. There were lots of dropped passes early on, our receivers did a much better job of holding on to the ball the last 7-8 games. Garretson completed 54.8% of his passes here, Nolan 60.8% (compared to Gulbranson's 62.6% while essentially not being asked to extend/stretch the field). It will be curious to see this year's version of QB play. DJU hit just under 60% at Clemson being asked to do just about everything. I expect Ben will be improved, and his arm looked livelier as the season progrssed and the shoulder surgery was more distant. Add in Chiles and his potential and it's a real competitive situation. Something is wrong with Nolan (small hands?), his mechanics (just awful footwork), or both. The dude could not consistently throw a spiral to save his life. He could pull a rabbit out and hit a spot 35 yards downfield every once in a long while, and you can pull up a pass or two to put together a highlight reel. But Nolan needs a ton of work to be a Power Five quarterback, and a full review of all of his tape will make this plain. Maybe someone wants to put in the time and effort and can actually fix what is wrong with Nolan? That is entirely possible. But he won't be the dude who threw ducks on basic flares last year. And maybe Nolan needs someone else to beat that into him. Gulbranson had a much better and consistent ball than Nolan, much easier to catch. He needs work as well, but he is not a tear down and rebuild type project like Nolan. To my eye, it looks like Gulbranson was able to get a better grip more often and get it to places with much less effort. He also actually would square his shoulders and plant, which helped. Nolan kept dancing and kept trying to throw without squaring his shoulders. And it was not a once in a while thing. It was like a once or twice a quarter deal. No bueno. Nolan played like he did not realize that he was mediocre. He thought that he was faster than he was and could throw it farther and more accurately. And that failure to appreciate reality burned him against both USC and Utah. Gulbranson played smart. He played within himself. He is a much better player to try and build a team around. As for digs on receivers, it is humorous (or not) that those "drops" immediately disappeared, when Gulbranson took over. Gulbranson has a lot cleaner ball that is easier to catch. Nolan and his ducks made running and trying to not get killed even more difficult than it normally is. Ultimately, I doubt that Gulbranson (or Nolan for that matter) is better than DJU, but I have been surprised before. Right. The dropped passes in the CW were basically nonexistent. And that was at the end of the year when things should’ve been clicking.
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Post by spudbeaver on Apr 19, 2023 6:44:44 GMT -8
I loved Chance! It just seemed like he went away from his strengths and his weaknesses were amplified. He didn’t run when it was open in the last few games, like he did previously. Instead he got sacked or threw a bad pass. His accuracy was worse in the end than Darrell Garretson. Lots of good qb’s lose their go to guy and still excel. In short, he played himself out of the lineup. Chance's "accuracy" was influenced quite a bit by what he was asked to do. He was being asked to hit 30-50 yard (in air) throws a few times a game. After he went down Gulbranson literally threw maybe 3 of that distance the remainder of the season. The top "long ball" (20 yards + in the air) passers in the NFL are hitting 35-46% www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-top-10-nfl-deep-passers-of-2021-three-qbs-playing-for-new-teams-i and the expected completion rate of 40 yard throws in the NFL is roughly 20% www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-introduction-to-completion-probability-0ap3000000964655Chance made a couple errant throws, and a couple very memorable lazy dumps that were either intercepted or nearly intercepted, but on the whole his accuracy was better than given credit for. That Fresno State game he literally hit the receivers in the hands with catchable balls on all but 4 or 5 passes. There were lots of dropped passes early on, our receivers did a much better job of holding on to the ball the last 7-8 games. Garretson completed 54.8% of his passes here, Nolan 60.8% (compared to Gulbranson's 62.6% while essentially not being asked to extend/stretch the field). It will be curious to see this year's version of QB play. DJU hit just under 60% at Clemson being asked to do just about everything. I expect Ben will be improved, and his arm looked livelier as the season progrssed and the shoulder surgery was more distant. Add in Chiles and his potential and it's a real competitive situation. I'm not talking about long passes. And I'm not talking about "on the whole." That's why I said "accuracy was worse in the end", keywords being in the end. Quoting career stats is fine but it doesn't relate in any way to my post. Except maybe the "I loved Chance" part. In short, I'll stand by my remarks.
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Post by orangeattack on Apr 19, 2023 11:41:57 GMT -8
Chance's "accuracy" was influenced quite a bit by what he was asked to do. He was being asked to hit 30-50 yard (in air) throws a few times a game. After he went down Gulbranson literally threw maybe 3 of that distance the remainder of the season. The top "long ball" (20 yards + in the air) passers in the NFL are hitting 35-46% www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-top-10-nfl-deep-passers-of-2021-three-qbs-playing-for-new-teams-i and the expected completion rate of 40 yard throws in the NFL is roughly 20% www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-introduction-to-completion-probability-0ap3000000964655Chance made a couple errant throws, and a couple very memorable lazy dumps that were either intercepted or nearly intercepted, but on the whole his accuracy was better than given credit for. That Fresno State game he literally hit the receivers in the hands with catchable balls on all but 4 or 5 passes. There were lots of dropped passes early on, our receivers did a much better job of holding on to the ball the last 7-8 games. Garretson completed 54.8% of his passes here, Nolan 60.8% (compared to Gulbranson's 62.6% while essentially not being asked to extend/stretch the field). It will be curious to see this year's version of QB play. DJU hit just under 60% at Clemson being asked to do just about everything. I expect Ben will be improved, and his arm looked livelier as the season progrssed and the shoulder surgery was more distant. Add in Chiles and his potential and it's a real competitive situation. Something is wrong with Nolan (small hands?), his mechanics (just awful footwork), or both. The dude could not consistently throw a spiral to save his life. He could pull a rabbit out and hit a spot 35 yards downfield every once in a long while, and you can pull up a pass or two to put together a highlight reel. But Nolan needs a ton of work to be a Power Five quarterback, and a full review of all of his tape will make this plain. Maybe someone wants to put in the time and effort and can actually fix what is wrong with Nolan? That is entirely possible. But he won't be the dude who threw ducks on basic flares last year. And maybe Nolan needs someone else to beat that into him. Gulbranson had a much better and consistent ball than Nolan, much easier to catch. He needs work as well, but he is not a tear down and rebuild type project like Nolan. To my eye, it looks like Gulbranson was able to get a better grip more often and get it to places with much less effort. He also actually would square his shoulders and plant, which helped. Nolan kept dancing and kept trying to throw without squaring his shoulders. And it was not a once in a while thing. It was like a once or twice a quarter deal. No bueno. Nolan played like he did not realize that he was mediocre. He thought that he was faster than he was and could throw it farther and more accurately. And that failure to appreciate reality burned him against both USC and Utah. Gulbranson played smart. He played within himself. He is a much better player to try and build a team around. As for digs on receivers, it is humorous (or not) that those "drops" immediately disappeared, when Gulbranson took over. Gulbranson has a lot cleaner ball that is easier to catch. Nolan and his ducks made running and trying to not get killed even more difficult than it normally is. Ultimately, I doubt that Gulbranson (or Nolan for that matter) is better than DJU, but I have been surprised before. Something that was often criticized with Nolan was his location. Couple that with the ball being delivered with a less than optimal spiral, and there are more incomplete passes which include deflections which are sometimes interceptions. Good decision maker overall. Gutty, tough, mobile. Those things are all true too. I understand what folks like irimi are saying about not liking to see him talked down, he was a good player for us. I remember hating very much listening to people trash talk DA during and after his tenure at Oregon State as well.
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Post by ag87 on Apr 19, 2023 12:07:47 GMT -8
If less than optimum spirals affected catching a football in a negative way our current head coach would have never seen the field when he played.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 19, 2023 12:42:31 GMT -8
If less than optimum spirals affected catching a football in a negative way our current head coach would have never seen the field when he played. Smitty didn't dance, though. He squared and threw. He probably had a similar issue (small hands), but he was much more fundamentally sound with much better footwork, which more than made up for what seemed to be mostly physical limitations. Nolan does not have the basic throwing mechanics down. He tried to dance and improvise too much and too often. He reminded me of a Ryan Katz with a bit more unrealized upside. I disliked watching Katz play, and I disliked watching Nolan play. Win or lose, I enjoyed watching Gulbranson play much more than I enjoyed watching Nolan play.
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Post by irimi on Apr 19, 2023 12:42:55 GMT -8
Go back to the early game threads in the year and see how many of those drops hit the receivers right in the hands. And I still argue that interceptions is a dangerous stat to draw any significance from. tipped passes or receivers running the wrong route can elevate that statistic without being the fault of the QB.
I also know that we often focus on the one player on the field, in this case the QB, without considering any of the other moving parts and pieces.
Chance got a bum rap from some fans here starting the week he was appointed starting quarterback. Yet he took us to our first bowl game in a number of years.
I'm not saying that you have to be in tears now that he's gone, but do you have to kick him in the ass on his way out? Show a little respect for the men who wore Orange and Black.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 19, 2023 13:21:28 GMT -8
Bad passes, bad catching, bad route running, poor blocking, great D effort, bad play calling can all cause an incompletion or interception, but the QB generally gets the blame for the 5 that weren't his fault.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 19, 2023 13:21:45 GMT -8
Go back to the early game threads in the year and see how many of those drops hit the receivers right in the hands. And I still argue that interceptions is a dangerous stat to draw any significance from. tipped passes or receivers running the wrong route can elevate that statistic without being the fault of the QB. I also know that we often focus on the one player on the field, in this case the QB, without considering any of the other moving parts and pieces. Chance got a bum rap from some fans here starting the week he was appointed starting quarterback. Yet he took us to our first bowl game in a number of years. I'm not saying that you have to be in tears now that he's gone, but do you have to kick him in the ass on his way out? Show a little respect for the men who wore Orange and Black. Some random threads: Official Fresno State Thread. Pages 49 on are what you are looking for. You can respond to what I posted there, if you would like. I hated on Nolan's footwork and how his upper body started to go before his lower body was set. I go through all of the "drops" and point out how each one was either not a drop, was tipped, was actually interference, or how Nolan managed to screw it up. Official USC Thread. You were huge pro-Nolan. I was anti-, but I also knew nothing about BG, so I stupidly said that we should give Nolan another chance against Utah. I also was hoping that Musgrave came back to make the offense work better. The Bench Nolan Thread after the Utah game.Another similar thread.An early Gulbranson thread.A final Gulbranson-Nolan discussion after the loss to Washington.After watching BG the whole year, I don't know how CN won the job. That never should have happened. Like looking back at 2010 and realizing that Katz had no business beating out Vaz. BG was pretty superior to CN in every meaningful way. The fact that this continues to come up is galling. Bye Chance! Our hats our off to you! Thanks for the memories in 2021! I hope that you find success in your future endeavors!
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