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Post by p8nted on Nov 28, 2023 16:06:51 GMT -8
Nobody in the MWC has really talked about absorbing OSU and WSU. They want to merge into the PAC. No question the MWC also wants to wait and see how it all settles with lawsuits still pending, For example, media negotiations with pending lawsuits would be difficult. On extremes here is still a slim chance the appeals can take a year or two, depending on details, or the PAC dissolves. I think everyone knows that 2024 is about waiting for the legal climate to settle. The Pac-2 plan has been in place basically since the 10 bailed. The language was always along the lines of rebuilding the Pac-12. OSU and WSU are very aware that the legal stuff might take some time. That doesn't mean that their entire plan for 2024 revolves around getting the legal stuff done and then moving forward. OSU and WSU already pretty much know what will happen if they lose the legal battle. But operating for a year or two as the Pac-2 allows them to continue to look at all options and maybe even figure out a way to create some additional options. And one option very well could be the intention to bring in schools from two or three different conferences. Some sort of merger with MWC is a very strong possibility as everything stands right now. However, as we've all seen in the past few months, the college football landscape can undergo drastic change practically overnight. As far as the MWC absorbing OSU and WSU, I think that is more along the lines of what Nevarez and other MWC administrators would prefer, not necessarily fans or people from individual schools. I have not seen that anywhere so just your opinion? PAC decision making could be paralyzed for a long time. If the Washington Supreme Court rules in OSU/WSU favor that will just be appealed in another state by a different departing PAC team. It is a real mess. Court case now moved back is just a preview. I certainly agree that things change quickly in this mess. Wait until the ACC implodes, that is what Tulane and Memphis are waiting for and why they will stay east.
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Post by p8nted on Nov 28, 2023 16:16:29 GMT -8
Monty Show reporting that Basketball will also be in a scheduling alliance with the MWC. Thinks the MWC?PAC merger would already be done if no legal case involved.
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Post by grayman on Nov 28, 2023 16:22:10 GMT -8
The Pac-2 plan has been in place basically since the 10 bailed. The language was always along the lines of rebuilding the Pac-12. OSU and WSU are very aware that the legal stuff might take some time. That doesn't mean that their entire plan for 2024 revolves around getting the legal stuff done and then moving forward. OSU and WSU already pretty much know what will happen if they lose the legal battle. But operating for a year or two as the Pac-2 allows them to continue to look at all options and maybe even figure out a way to create some additional options. And one option very well could be the intention to bring in schools from two or three different conferences. Some sort of merger with MWC is a very strong possibility as everything stands right now. However, as we've all seen in the past few months, the college football landscape can undergo drastic change practically overnight. As far as the MWC absorbing OSU and WSU, I think that is more along the lines of what Nevarez and other MWC administrators would prefer, not necessarily fans or people from individual schools. I have not seen that anywhere so just your opinion? PAC decision making could be paralyzed for a long time. If the Washington Supreme Court rules in OSU/WSU favor that will just be appealed in another state by a different departing PAC team. It is a real mess. Court case now moved back is just a preview. I certainly agree that things change quickly in this mess. Wait until the ACC implodes, that is what Tulane and Memphis are waiting for and why they will stay east. It is my opinion. It's not as if you're going to hear her come out and say it. It just stands to reason that she would want the MWC with OSU and WSU as expansion members rather than potentially giving up a lot or all of her power if there's a reverse merger. Of course, if she were to be named the new Pac's commish, that would all go away. I will add that even assuming the Pac-2 win the legal battle, there has to be some strong incentives involved for the MWC to agree to a reverse merger. If becoming a power conference is off the table and OSU and WSU choose to keep the money to fund their own programs, what is left?
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Post by p8nted on Nov 28, 2023 16:28:05 GMT -8
I have not seen that anywhere so just your opinion? PAC decision making could be paralyzed for a long time. If the Washington Supreme Court rules in OSU/WSU favor that will just be appealed in another state by a different departing PAC team. It is a real mess. Court case now moved back is just a preview. I certainly agree that things change quickly in this mess. Wait until the ACC implodes, that is what Tulane and Memphis are waiting for and why they will stay east. It is my opinion. It's not as if you're going to hear her come out and say it. It just stands to reason that she would want the MWC with OSU and WSU as expansion members rather than potentially giving up a lot or all of her power if there's a reverse merger. Of course, if she were to be named the new Pac's commish, that would all go away. I will add that even assuming the Pac-2 win the legal battle, there has to be some strong incentives involved for the MWC to agree to a reverse merger. If becoming a power conference is off the table and OSU and WSU choose to keep the money to fund their own programs, what is left? Quite a bit is left frankly. Two new members who will increase the SOS of the conference, great in region travel, reopens the media contract for adjustments, adds great stability to the conference, and Commish has said she would like to go to 16. We get to keep anything that was the PAC 2 money and awarded in court but there are significant benefits to the MWC without any of that. Gloria is smart she knows there is far more value in PAC 12 brand than the MWC brand.
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sessbeav
Freshman
Posts: 466
Grad Year: Should’ve been 1991. Actual…..2006. Beer derailed me.
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Post by sessbeav on Nov 28, 2023 16:32:09 GMT -8
The hard part is we just don't know what the landscape will look like 2 years down the road. If we can survive that long. Will there be other schools left out in the cold if/when other conferences fold up? Would/will those schools be a better fit for a new PAC? We would all like to remain a P5 school - is it really in the cards?
I embrace what we are working out with the MWC - and some version of that may be our future home - but to try and stay afloat long enough to see if we can put something better together makes good sense.
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Post by p8nted on Nov 28, 2023 16:36:51 GMT -8
The hard part is we just don't know what the landscape will look like 2 years down the road. If we can survive that long. Will there be other schools left out in the cold if/when other conferences fold up? Would/will those schools be a better fit for a new PAC? We would all like to remain a P5 school - is it really in the cards? I embrace what we are working out with the MWC - and some version of that may be our future home - but to try and stay afloat long enough to see if we can put something better together makes good sense. Agree, but while we do that the price is high. No ability to qualify for the FB playoffs for 2 years and all olympic sports have to qualify as an at large for the NCAA tournament. How will that impact the programs over the next 10 years?
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 28, 2023 16:39:27 GMT -8
The hard part is we just don't know what the landscape will look like 2 years down the road. If we can survive that long. Will there be other schools left out in the cold if/when other conferences fold up? Would/will those schools be a better fit for a new PAC? We would all like to remain a P5 school - is it really in the cards? I embrace what we are working out with the MWC - and some version of that may be our future home - but to try and stay afloat long enough to see if we can put something better together makes good sense. Agree, but while we do that the price is high. No ability to qualify for the FB playoffs for 2 years and all olympic sports have to qualify as an at large for the NCAA tournament. How will that impact the programs over the next 10 years? That is not true. Top 12 teams regardless. We go 11-1 or 12-0 and we have a shot.
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Post by p8nted on Nov 28, 2023 16:45:26 GMT -8
Agree, but while we do that the price is high. No ability to qualify for the FB playoffs for 2 years and all olympic sports have to qualify as an at large for the NCAA tournament. How will that impact the programs over the next 10 years? That is not true. Top 12 teams regardless. We go 11-1 or 12-0 and we have a shot. Agree. I poorly stated that. I think in the 5-7 model the top 5 conference champs qualify automatically so being the top G5 champ is a good opening for a non p4 program?
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 28, 2023 16:49:12 GMT -8
That is not true. Top 12 teams regardless. We go 11-1 or 12-0 and we have a shot. Good to know. I thought in the 5-7 model the top 5 conference champs qualify automatically so being the top G5 champ is a good opening for a non p4 program? Is 5-7 a thing yet, or is it still 6-6?
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 28, 2023 16:52:30 GMT -8
I have not seen that anywhere so just your opinion? PAC decision making could be paralyzed for a long time. If the Washington Supreme Court rules in OSU/WSU favor that will just be appealed in another state by a different departing PAC team. It is a real mess. Court case now moved back is just a preview. I certainly agree that things change quickly in this mess. Wait until the ACC implodes, that is what Tulane and Memphis are waiting for and why they will stay east. It is my opinion. It's not as if you're going to hear her come out and say it. It just stands to reason that she would want the MWC with OSU and WSU as expansion members rather than potentially giving up a lot or all of her power if there's a reverse merger. Of course, if she were to be named the new Pac's commish, that would all go away. I will add that even assuming the Pac-2 win the legal battle, there has to be some strong incentives involved for the MWC to agree to a reverse merger. If becoming a power conference is off the table and OSU and WSU choose to keep the money to fund their own programs, what is left? If the MWC absorbs the 2 schools, I'm pretty sure Nevarro is stuck with negotiating with her existing partners. They renegotiate rater than go away. The Pac 2 will be negotiating its own deal as soon as they win their court cases. I highly doubt it will be a long term deal unless it is very favorable terms that extend to new additions. If the big guys don't want to play, it could be a year at a time with an operator like Root Sports for all we know. Once expansion is set, there'd be open negotiating with just about every media outlet, and it'd likely be well over what the MWC will ever get from their current media partners. Navarro would likely MUCH prefer a reverse merger right now, tomorrow morning even, over absorbing OSU & WSU under the MWC or losing some of her schools and being stuck outside of whatever PAC rebuild there is. Remember, she was a higher up in the Pac-12 offices at one time, she's well aware of the brand value that name carries compared to that of the MWC. Odds are, if the league operates as the Pac-2 and later steals some of her teams and opens up a position for a new commissioner, she'll jump at getting her resume in the pile. She might even jump at that opportunity if Kliavkoff gets canned right awsy and they opt to hire a permanent commissioner rather than an interim commissioner.
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Post by p8nted on Nov 28, 2023 16:55:34 GMT -8
Good to know. I thought in the 5-7 model the top 5 conference champs qualify automatically so being the top G5 champ is a good opening for a non p4 program? Is 5-7 a thing yet, or is it still 6-6? Who knows. Media all seem to think the 5-7 is a done deal
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 28, 2023 16:58:09 GMT -8
That is not true. Top 12 teams regardless. We go 11-1 or 12-0 and we have a shot. Agree. I poorly stated that. I think in the 5-7 model the top 5 conference champs qualify automatically so being the top G5 champ is a good opening for a non p4 program? It doesn't matter if it's 6/6 or 5/7, a high enough ranking will get you in. That ranking could depend on how many conference champions get in, but "independents" (which the Pac 2 would sort of be) can still crack into the playoffs based on ranking. More on the "top 12" ranking, if one of the top 5/6 (depending on what they set it at) conference champs were ranked 13th or worse, they would still get in and the actual 12th ranked team might not, depending on their status in their own conference. I guess in theory it could also be affected by conference finals, if a lower ranked team won? I'm not sure how the playoffs committee deals with that.
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Post by p8nted on Nov 28, 2023 17:01:24 GMT -8
It is my opinion. It's not as if you're going to hear her come out and say it. It just stands to reason that she would want the MWC with OSU and WSU as expansion members rather than potentially giving up a lot or all of her power if there's a reverse merger. Of course, if she were to be named the new Pac's commish, that would all go away. I will add that even assuming the Pac-2 win the legal battle, there has to be some strong incentives involved for the MWC to agree to a reverse merger. If becoming a power conference is off the table and OSU and WSU choose to keep the money to fund their own programs, what is left? If the MWC absorbs the 2 schools, I'm pretty sure Nevarro is stuck with negotiating with her existing partners. They renegotiate rater than go away. The Pac 2 will be negotiating its own deal as soon as they win their court cases. I highly doubt it will be a long term deal unless it is very favorable terms that extend to new additions. If the big guys don't want to play, it could be a year at a time with an operator like Root Sports for all we know. Once expansion is set, there'd be open negotiating with just about every media outlet, and it'd likely be well over what the MWC will ever get from their current media partners. Navarro would likely MUCH prefer a reverse merger right now, tomorrow morning even, over absorbing OSU & WSU under the MWC or losing some of her schools and being stuck outside of whatever PAC rebuild there is. Remember, she was a higher up in the Pac-12 offices at one time, she's well aware of the brand value that name carries compared to that of the MWC. Odds are, if the league operates as the Pac-2 and later steals some of her teams and opens up a position for a new commissioner, she'll jump at getting her resume in the pile. She might even jump at that opportunity if Kliavkoff gets canned right awsy and they opt to hire a permanent commissioner rather than an interim commissioner. We should have hired her rather than the idiots we did. I think the odds are low we cherry pick the MWC in the near future.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 28, 2023 17:05:06 GMT -8
If the MWC absorbs the 2 schools, I'm pretty sure Nevarro is stuck with negotiating with her existing partners. They renegotiate rater than go away. The Pac 2 will be negotiating its own deal as soon as they win their court cases. I highly doubt it will be a long term deal unless it is very favorable terms that extend to new additions. If the big guys don't want to play, it could be a year at a time with an operator like Root Sports for all we know. Once expansion is set, there'd be open negotiating with just about every media outlet, and it'd likely be well over what the MWC will ever get from their current media partners. Navarro would likely MUCH prefer a reverse merger right now, tomorrow morning even, over absorbing OSU & WSU under the MWC or losing some of her schools and being stuck outside of whatever PAC rebuild there is. Remember, she was a higher up in the Pac-12 offices at one time, she's well aware of the brand value that name carries compared to that of the MWC. Odds are, if the league operates as the Pac-2 and later steals some of her teams and opens up a position for a new commissioner, she'll jump at getting her resume in the pile. She might even jump at that opportunity if Kliavkoff gets canned right awsy and they opt to hire a permanent commissioner rather than an interim commissioner. We should have hired her rather than the idiots we did. I think the odds are low we cherry pick the MWC in the near future. If this latest 14 million buck payment in exchange for games proposal flies, I think the odds of cherry picking the MWC in the next couple years jumps significantly.
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Post by donkeyotee on Nov 28, 2023 17:21:14 GMT -8
I liked the idea that was suggested awhile ago of a relegation-style league, with the PAC being the top league with the top teams in the MW and the MWC being the 2nd tier. Sounds good in theory but not sure how practical it would be. I’m thinking they were literally looking at 2 separate leagues/conferences of a minimum of 8 teams each with a relegation agreement between them. That way there would still be 10 FBS conferences instead of 9 and you could justify a P5/G5 situation like we currently have now. Yeah I think you are right on that. Goal to keep PAC as a P5 conference.
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