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Post by Mike84 on Nov 3, 2016 10:00:20 GMT -8
Why are you always bagging on MM? Check stats, best game of the year by a Beaver QB against a real team. Blame the play calling and dropped passes, not the kid who is actually moving the offense. There is no doubt that McM has proven to be the best passing QB we've seen at OSU this season. But there's also no doubt that he was rushing his throws in the second half as our offense sputtered and was off target on many of them. It is not his fault that the running game was getting shut down or that WSU was getting more pressure on him or that he probably had less time to throw. However, he needed to be on target when he did get time to throw. McM himself said that he could have thrown for 400 yards if only he had done the little things right. So, I don't think it's unfair to let McM share in some of the blame for our poor offensive showing in the second half.
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Post by Mike84 on Nov 3, 2016 10:05:19 GMT -8
60% completion, 327 yards, 2 TD's and zero turnovers. That's considered "moving the ball" IMO. Quite a few drops in there as well. It was the play calling that cost the game, who continues to throw and stop the clock when we were having success running? I don't believe we were having success running the ball in the second half but we also did not abandon the run. This same topic came up in another thread and it motivated me to look at each possession and the run/pass production. Here is that data again: ....... In the first half, when everything was working, we had a run vs. pass play ratio of 15 runs to 23 passes and a run vs. pass yards ratio of 150 yards to 226 yards. Out of our 6 possessions in the first half, 4 started with a run and 2 started with a pass. Obviously, when you start with a run and it gets good yards, it puts you in a good position to mix in the run and pass after that. In the second half, when nothing was working well, we had a run vs. pass play ratio of 12 runs to 17 passes and a run vs. pass yards ratio of 19 yards to 91 yards (including the 8 yard loss on a sack as a pass play). Out of our 9 possessions in the second half, 5 started with a run and 4 started with a pass (including the pass/lateral desperation play at the end). When that first run is getting you 1 or 0 yards, it makes it harder to mix in the run/pass after that. And yet, we actually had a higher ratio of run plays in the second half than in the first. It's just that we only had 17 plays in 9 possessions (including a 1-play possession for a TD after the fumbled punt and a 1-play possession to end the game). Here's how the possessions looked: POSSESSION | QUARTER | OPENING PLAY
| RUNS-YDS | PASSES-YDS | RESULT | 1 | 1Q | Pass | 3-17
| 4-38
| Missed FG
| 2 | 1Q | Pass | 1-89
| 1-5
| TD
| 3 | 1Q | Run | 4-18
| 5-57
| TD
| 4 | 2Q | Run | 2-22
| 2-0
| Punt
| 5 | 2Q | Run | 2-(-4)
| 5-77
| TD
| 6
| 2Q | Run | 3-15
| 6-49
| FG/end
| 7 | 3Q | Run | 1-1
| 2-(-8)
| Punt
| 8 | 3Q | Run | 1-(-4)
| 2-8
| Punt
| 9
| 3Q | Pass | 0-0
| 3-2
| Punt
| 10 | 3Q | Run | 2-3
| 3-41
| Punt
| 11 | 4Q | Pass | 1-2
| 2-0
| Punt
| 12 | 4Q | Run | 1-3
| 0-0
| TD
| 13 | 4Q | Run | 4-14
| 2-9
| Downs
| 14 | 4Q | Pass | 2-0
| 2-9
| Downs
| 15 | 4Q
| Pass | 0-0
| 1-24
| End
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Mike '84
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Post by beavadelic on Nov 3, 2016 10:30:45 GMT -8
Why are you always bagging on MM? Check stats, best game of the year by a Beaver QB against a real team. Blame the play calling and dropped passes, not the kid who is actually moving the offense. There is no doubt that McM has proven to be the best passing QB we've seen at OSU this season. But there's also no doubt that he was rushing his throws in the second half as our offense sputtered and was off target on many of them. It is not his fault that the running game was getting shut down or that WSU was getting more pressure on him or that he probably had less time to throw. However, he needed to be on target when he did get time to throw. McM himself said that he could have thrown for 400 yards if only he had done the little things right. So, I don't think it's unfair to let McM share in some of the blame for our poor offensive showing in the second half. MM is an outstanding young man, and he's done some nice things for us when he's started and played entire games. The problem for me as I have watched his progress is his decision-making on the read option. He is so reticent to run, that defenses don't even have to account for him. A couple of times on Saturday, he could have walked to a first down or TD had he correctly read the end (or been willing to keep the ball. It's not like Marcus can't run. He's no Collins, but he can move. In high school his tape showed a guy with pretty clever feet. Collins was not good at reading the defense and an erratic passer, resulting in the need to go a different direction with him. Garretson read the defense beautifully and was a very effective runner, but a very inaccurate passer. As we keep searching for the guy who - as GA put it - "can hurt you with his arm, his legs, and his mind, MM is the closest that we have right now, IMO. It may be that the injury issues have prompted McGiven to tell him to never run, but he's capable, and if he figured that out, it could open the offense up more.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 12:12:49 GMT -8
What are our chances this Saturday? On paper, until they played against an awful 'zonal defense, they experienced the largest offensive production drop-off from last year of any P5 conference memory. The QB situation has been bad, the O-line uncharacteristically weak, and opponents have loaded up on McCaffrey (must be frustrating, similar to what Simonton experienced after the Fiesta season). They haven't been very good, but they do have #5, and our D seems have the worst time putting the same 11 on the field for more than one game. We wear down due to poor depth, and all Stanford has to do is play error-free because of their defense. Which brings us to.... That defense! The past decade or so, the Cardinal have been nasty on this side of the ball. This season, the loss of a couple of leaders to graduation, etc. and some untimely injuries have robbed them of a bit of their luster. However, the past 3 games they've held offenses that are better than ours to 10 points. They are so physical, make very few mental mistakes (go figure), and are fundamentally lights out. When they are in a position to tackle, you go down. Their best DB will be on the field, after missing significant action this year due to injuries. Given the fact that the Catsinal don't give up big plays much, and it's so hard for anyone - especially our Beavs - to sustain long drives against them, it could be tough to score in double digits. While it's true that Stanford can be had this year, they are extremely well coached and are still playing for something. It's tough for our kids to close games at home, let alone to break through on the road. My buddies and I traveled to the farm 4 years ago when beating them could have set us up for a Rose Bowl shot and we led until the last couple of minutes. That stadium is not a hostile place comparatively, but as we're learning what it takes to win games that we're capable of winning, it will be a tall order, IMO, on Saturday. We absolutely COULD win this thing. If Nall can stay healthy I feel like we can run a little bit on this year's 'furd D. Along with that, Marcus needs to make good decisions and take care of the ball, and we can't afford to have drops of catchable balls. I believe that we'll need 14-17 points to win. Defensively, we have to play disciplined. Since our pass rush is so weak, Chryst will have some time to survey things downfield. I have appreciated the few wrinkles (corner blitzes, sending more LBs more frequently) that Clune has come with in the past couple games. It will hurt to not have Bright in the first half, because actually been a rare bright (pun coincidental) spot for us, particularly the past 3-4 weeks. I honestly feel like the D is starting to get settled. If not for so many annoying injuries, we might even be fairly decent overall. Our lack of depth makes it tough, but we are capable of holding the Cardinal offense to 1 or 2 TDs. We simply cannot allow McCaffrey to get going, or allow the QB to find a rythm. My heart wants to say 17-14 Beavs. My head tells me that this is going to be a really ugly, tough one. Yeah this has ugly loss written on it. Last week was our "win". And i Still think we get another one this season.
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 3, 2016 12:16:33 GMT -8
Sorry, but we were not having success running in the second half. MM still had those stats and we had no success running the ball the WHOLE game. Take away the 1 rush for 89 yards and see what you get?? Three easy drops puts MM over 400 and maybe a different outcome... he was our only consistent positive vs WSU... and I believe has the three best QB games since GA arrived.
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Post by TheGlove on Nov 3, 2016 14:35:40 GMT -8
Sorry, but we were not having success running in the second half. MM still had those stats and we had no success running the ball the WHOLE game. Take away the 1 rush for 89 yards and see what you get?? Three easy drops puts MM over 400 and maybe a different outcome... he was our only consistent positive vs WSU... and I believe has the three best QB games since GA arrived. Why take away the 89 yard run? The way things were going in the first half we might just have drove down the field, in smaller chunks, and scored. You don't know what would have happened and to "take it away" makes me think that you think it was a fluke and not earned.
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Post by ochobeavo on Nov 3, 2016 14:50:24 GMT -8
MM still had those stats and we had no success running the ball the WHOLE game. Take away the 1 rush for 89 yards and see what you get?? Three easy drops puts MM over 400 and maybe a different outcome... he was our only consistent positive vs WSU... and I believe has the three best QB games since GA arrived. Why take away the 89 yard run? The way things were going in the first half we might just have drove down the field, in smaller chunks, and scored. You don't know what would have happened and to "take it away" makes me think that you think it was a fluke and not earned. Take away all the hits I gave up on the mound, I would have thrown a bunch of no-hitters back in high school. I like it. I coulda been a contender!!!
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Post by nabeav on Nov 3, 2016 14:55:16 GMT -8
I think his point is that there weren't any "smaller chunks" being picked up at any point in the game. Of Ryan Nall's 19 carries, 11 went for two or fewer yards. only 6 went for 4+. There was no way we were going to be grinding out first downs in that game without throwing the ball.
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 4, 2016 0:01:43 GMT -8
I think his point is that there weren't any "smaller chunks" being picked up at any point in the game. Of Ryan Nall's 19 carries, 11 went for two or fewer yards. only 6 went for 4+. There was no way we were going to be grinding out first downs in that game without throwing the ball. Exactly... did not think it was that tough of connection to make, but then again... You tend to expect such blurbs from those types who know exactly what other posters think or intend. To know the audience from which comments come is half the battle in minimizing typing rebuttals on here. I'm glad you could explain the concept to them in more detail. And, maybe go into more on baseball... about taking away the walks and hit batsman... they're bad too!
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Post by ochobeavo on Nov 4, 2016 6:22:12 GMT -8
LOL, I'm kidding guy. And I couldn't hit anyone if I tried. Threw slow enough that they had plenty of time to get out of the way if they needed to! When they talked about 5 tool players, I was just a tool.
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 4, 2016 18:27:24 GMT -8
I believe my post was in jest too!?
And never sell yourself short... every "tool" has at least two "uses/usefulness"
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