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Post by TonySoprano on Jun 14, 2017 6:54:25 GMT -8
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Post by bennysdentist on Jun 14, 2017 7:19:22 GMT -8
I read this earlier today. I'm not always a fan of Kerry, but this is an excellent piece of journalism. Thorough research, very informative article.
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Post by nabeav on Jun 14, 2017 7:27:07 GMT -8
I'll comment!
My thoughts: According to this, Corvallis police screwed up in even citing him in the first place. Does this mean Luke can now sue CPD for loss of future earning potential? Because he lost A LOT of money.
I appreciate all the context about low recidivism rates and how jail time does more harm than good for juvenile offenders. That's good stuff. What I didn't like is the downplaying of the incident. There's a whole paragraph in there that says people very often plead guilty to things they didn't even do, even though there is no evidence that is what happened in this incident. Later it goes into saying that victims get much better treatment these days, as if to say "well, the little girl will probably be alright!" and a judge saying that using "language that suggests criminality" is wrong. So....don't call a sex offender a criminal? I'm not at all ok with this line of thought. I've heard this on NPR in other scenarios about not referring to people in jail as inmates or prisoners but rather as "incarcerated persons." If you are in prison, you are a prisoner.
Kerry Eggers then went on (in a series of tweets back and forth with Ian Furness) to try and downplay Luke's offense by saying he only pled to one charge, therefore it is unfair to Luke to call him a repeat offender despite the police report documenting multiple incidents over a 2-3 year period. Semantics don't belong in the conversation.
Luke put himself in this situation, obviously, but starting with CPD's error in citing him, I feel like the adults in the room are failing him. Oregon State hasn't commented directly on the situation yet. They haven't said "we knew about the situation, and were handling it according to our policies and procedures." They haven't said "we were not aware of the situation, and are currently reviewing why we didn't know, and if we even should have known." Hell, they even made the decision to sit him, and then put it on him like it was his choice. That's crap. Pat Casey is the only person who has spoken directly to the situation by saying "in his time at OSU, he's been a first class citizen on and off the field." Good for Pat.
Ultimately, the only two questions I want answered are the ones I posed above: Did OSU know, and did they do what they were supposed to do? If the answer is no either of those questions, I want to know why.
And I think Luke has every right to pitch in the CWS if his mind is right. I'm not going to be 100% comfortable with it, admittedly, but I can't see any reason why he shouldn't be allowed to play.
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Post by mountainbeaver on Jun 14, 2017 8:14:50 GMT -8
Thanks for posting this article which I think does a good job of discussing a lot of the issues around adolescent abuse. There is no question that sexual abuse is way too common. The issue I struggle with is how long do you choose to stigmatize someone with the label of sex offender given that it essentially creates a lifetime label that will prevent you from having any chance of success in most endeavors, be it getting a job or even finding a place to live. The crime is awful, but the punishment may create an even worse long term outcome for all.
I have mixed feelings about Luke playing again this year given the emotional baggage this carries, not only for the public but for him and the team. I do however, believe he deserves a chance to pursue his career going forward from the CWS. There's not going to be easy answers. It's an even pricklier question of whether kids in his situation should be recruited. I think it's an issue that's difficult to paint in black and white, particularly if the kid has worked hard to get their life straight. The victim will have a lot to overcome, but I'm not sure lifetime punishment makes the victims path any easier or society any better.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 14, 2017 8:18:23 GMT -8
I'll comment! My thoughts: According to this, Corvallis police screwed up in even citing him in the first place. Does this mean Luke can now sue CPD for loss of future earning potential? Because he lost A LOT of money. I appreciate all the context about low recidivism rates and how jail time does more harm than good for juvenile offenders. That's good stuff. What I didn't like is the downplaying of the incident. There's a whole paragraph in there that says people very often plead guilty to things they didn't even do, even though there is no evidence that is what happened in this incident. Later it goes into saying that victims get much better treatment these days, as if to say "well, the little girl will probably be alright!" and a judge saying that using "language that suggests criminality" is wrong. So....don't call a sex offender a criminal? I'm not at all ok with this line of thought. I've heard this on NPR in other scenarios about not referring to people in jail as inmates or prisoners but rather as "incarcerated persons." If you are in prison, you are a prisoner. Kerry Eggers then went on (in a series of tweets back and forth with Ian Furness) to try and downplay Luke's offense by saying he only pled to one charge, therefore it is unfair to Luke to call him a repeat offender despite the police report documenting multiple incidents over a 2-3 year period. Semantics don't belong in the conversation. Luke put himself in this situation, obviously, but starting with CPD's error in citing him, I feel like the adults in the room are failing him. Oregon State hasn't commented directly on the situation yet. They haven't said "we knew about the situation, and were handling it according to our policies and procedures." They haven't said "we were not aware of the situation, and are currently reviewing why we didn't know, and if we even should have known." Hell, they even made the decision to sit him, and then put it on him like it was his choice. That's crap. Pat Casey is the only person who has spoken directly to the situation by saying "in his time at OSU, he's been a first class citizen on and off the field." Good for Pat. Ultimately, the only two questions I want answered are the ones I posed above: Did OSU know, and did they do what they were supposed to do? If the answer is no either of those questions, I want to know why. And I think Luke has every right to pitch in the CWS if his mind is right. I'm not going to be 100% comfortable with it, admittedly, but I can't see any reason why he shouldn't be allowed to play. It may be downplaying but it is also important. The article does make very real, very good points about how this all works. Over and over again, people are saying Luke systematically abused a young girl for two years. That was the accusation. What he plead to was a single count. When he plead guilty to that, he was not afforded the ability to refute, to offer evidence, or act in any manner to his own defense. Maybe the situation was as accused. Maybe it was worse. Or maybe it wasn't even close to what was stated. We simply do not know. And that is the difficult mental exercise we must put ourselves through. In the United States of America, you are innocent until proven guilty. Luke H. make a deal to plead to a single charge, which means he was never proven guilty, evidence was never evaluated in a court of law, a jury or judge never ruled on its validity and nothing was ever substantiated. Could Luke of been repeatedly abusing a young girl for years? yes. yes he could of. Do we know that he did? no we did not. Could he of evaluated his options and realized that he could roll the dice in a he-said, she-said court room battle, and pleading to a lesser charge with the belief that a juvenile record would be sealed? Yes he could of. As to your last question. it is most probable OSU did not know. Why they did not know is because it is against Oregon State law for a university or public agency to inquire about juvenile crimes. Pat Casey and OSU were not even allowed to ask. that is the law, I posted the ORS in another thread.
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Post by Werebeaver on Jun 14, 2017 8:30:54 GMT -8
I would not want to be an OSU admin in a time like this. But I don't think you are going to see them hang Luke out to dry. He is an OSU student, he was admitted according to the school's policies and from everything I've read his record at OSU has been exemplary. If he hasn't violated any university rules I don't see the Ed Ray and the OSU admins inventing some PR reason to keep him from playing. As far as I'm concerned they either kick him off the team or they let him play. I don't see any argument for an in-between decision. Then why did they have him sit for the Super Regional, you may ask? Fair question but I think this situation caught them off guard and they might have felt they needed some time to make sure they had all of the relevant facts in hand.
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Jun 14, 2017 8:50:18 GMT -8
I believe OSU will be looking for a new baseball coach by the end of the month if Dr. Ray doesn't step up and back the student athletes and their coaches. I hope I'm wrong but that is the feeling I'm getting.
As the father of a daughter, I am fully aware and respect the desire for a "pound of flesh." But I also believe children make mistakes and need to be able to grow and learn from them. The decision regarding LH's status should be his and his coaches. Period. Dr. Ray needs to respect that and back what ever decision is made.
Go Beavs!
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Post by nabeav on Jun 14, 2017 8:52:56 GMT -8
As to your last question. it is most probable OSU did not know. Why they did not know is because it is against Oregon State law for a university or public agency to inquire about juvenile crimes. Pat Casey and OSU were not even allowed to ask. that is the law, I posted the ORS in another thread. I believe OSU also stated, however, that they get a list of all RSO's in the area to check against their student records. It sounds like Luke did register when he moved to Corvallis, so in theory OSU would have received a list with his name on it, yes? That's the part of the story I want clarification on. Did Luke register when moving to Corvallis? (it sounds like he did) Did Oregon/Benton County/Corvallis police provide a list with his name on it to OSU? If no, why? Was it because he was such a low risk offender, his name wouldn't appear on such lists? If so, just say that. If yes, who received list? Were OSU policies and procedures followed? If not, why? Bottom line is that, given what has been reported (first by Danny Moran and then by Kerry Eggers yesterday), it's my opinion that Luke has done everything he was required to do since arriving at OSU. If that is the case, he should pitch.
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bbfan
Freshman
Posts: 204
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Post by bbfan on Jun 14, 2017 8:58:45 GMT -8
If you guys think Ed Ray, who was in charge of the Penn State sanctions, is going to let Luke pitch in Omaha you are nuts. The backlash against Osu would be incredible. My guess at this point is Luke retains his scholarship and can continue as a student at Osu but we have seen the last of him playing. I am not saying I agree with this approach, but it feels like its the political reality of the situation.
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Post by NativeBeav on Jun 14, 2017 9:14:45 GMT -8
As to your last question. it is most probable OSU did not know. Why they did not know is because it is against Oregon State law for a university or public agency to inquire about juvenile crimes. Pat Casey and OSU were not even allowed to ask. that is the law, I posted the ORS in another thread. I believe OSU also stated, however, that they get a list of all RSO's in the area to check against their student records. It sounds like Luke did register when he moved to Corvallis, so in theory OSU would have received a list with his name on it, yes? That's the part of the story I want clarification on. Did Luke register when moving to Corvallis? (it sounds like he did) Did Oregon/Benton County/Corvallis police provide a list with his name on it to OSU? If no, why? Was it because he was such a low risk offender, his name wouldn't appear on such lists? If so, just say that. If yes, who received list? Were OSU policies and procedures followed? If not, why? Bottom line is that, given what has been reported (first by Danny Moran and then by Kerry Eggers yesterday), it's my opinion that Luke has done everything he was required to do since arriving at OSU. If that is the case, he should pitch.
+100 - I have two daughters, and can only imagine how the parents of this girl felt at the time this came up - both then and now. But at the end of the day, no one wins in this situation. Keeping LH from pitching is only adding insult to injury. By the way, I am not just saying this because he is a starting pitcher, or as a Beaver homer. I have been less than hospitable with the shenanigans of players from TOSDS. Context? They were active players - LH was not at the time of the incident. He was also a juvenile at the time. On a side note, if I was a good criminal attorney, on behalf of LH I would wait until this CWS is over, and investigate further. If this was a mistaken outing of LH by the CPD as Eggers indicates, and if it was the decision by the admin at OSU in the super regional, and now at the CWS to hold LH back from pitching, I would be looking to file a lawsuit not only against CPD, but also OSU for violating LH rights. He has rights as well as the victim. And thus far, the university by holding him back have violated his LEGAL rights, IMHO. I know many have said he should not have been allowed to ever suit up as an OSU player as a registered sex offender, but if that is your wish, you best put it in writing for others in the future. It cannot be applied subjectively - LH followed the law, and did not hide anything. The only reason in the end I might not file the lawsuit is he can apply to have his record expunged in August, and that would be way better than going the legal route, which most certainly would destroy his potential MLB career. We live is such a screwed up country and world at this point - moral schizophrenia runs incredibly deep in 21st century America. Sad all the way around.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jun 14, 2017 9:20:12 GMT -8
If you guys think Ed Ray, who was in charge of the Penn State sanctions, is going to let Luke pitch in Omaha you are nuts. The backlash against Osu would be incredible. My guess at this point is Luke retains his scholarship and can continue as a student at Osu but we have seen the last of him playing. I am not saying I agree with this approach, but it feels like its the political reality of the situation. Putting Ed Ray/Penn State situation anywhere near this thread is ridiculous. If Ed Ray made a decision about Luke based on that then he can find a new university to lead. He has been very good for OSU in many ways , but like any administrator he has faults. He lost half my donation $ with his "ghost like" presence regarding the football program. Then to very publicly jump on the new coach bandwagon both publicly and financially. It was very strange considering GA was truly not some high profile get. If this situation is handled further in the secretive fashion and causes PC to evaluate whether staying at OSU is in his best interest, I'll attend and support student athletes home and away, but every dime of "extra" academic and athletic $ of mine will disappear. These two very public situations are not what I thought Ed Ray represented.
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bbfan
Freshman
Posts: 204
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Post by bbfan on Jun 14, 2017 9:32:42 GMT -8
Ed Ray took a ton of **** from Penn State fans regarding the sanctions. To turn around and let Luke pitch is not going to go over well. Again I can see both sides of this and think Luke deserves a chance to lead a productive life in whatever field he can succeed in but I just don't see that happening at Oregon State. Best thing would be for him to get drafted today and move on to the minors
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 14, 2017 9:34:52 GMT -8
As to your last question. it is most probable OSU did not know. Why they did not know is because it is against Oregon State law for a university or public agency to inquire about juvenile crimes. Pat Casey and OSU were not even allowed to ask. that is the law, I posted the ORS in another thread. I believe OSU also stated, however, that they get a list of all RSO's in the area to check against their student records. It sounds like Luke did register when he moved to Corvallis, so in theory OSU would have received a list with his name on it, yes? That's the part of the story I want clarification on. Did Luke register when moving to Corvallis? (it sounds like he did) Did Oregon/Benton County/Corvallis police provide a list with his name on it to OSU? If no, why? Was it because he was such a low risk offender, his name wouldn't appear on such lists? If so, just say that. If yes, who received list? Were OSU policies and procedures followed? If not, why? Bottom line is that, given what has been reported (first by Danny Moran and then by Kerry Eggers yesterday), it's my opinion that Luke has done everything he was required to do since arriving at OSU. If that is the case, he should pitch. From my understanding Luke H. "threat level" is not at the level Oregon publicly reported. Oregon only publicly reports a level 3 offender. Luke was classified as a level 1 offender. the lowest risk, and the type of offense you now get if you mooned the football crowd during homecoming in this day and age... You have good questions that should have answers. It is bizarre these straight forward questions have not been answered. To me, it is a smoking gun that is pointing to much larger drama with this story. Luke H. lawyer may have effectively put a gag on OSU at this time. We have rumblings that CPD screwed up, rumblings about malice from the family. all sorts of crazy stuff. The silence, of course, is deafening. Oddly, the silence is deafening this tends to be the number one thing Canzano hits on when he writes his hit pieces, after his initial blast... crickets on that front. crickets on any reporting about OSU's lack of statements. Sure, crazy conspiracy theory territory we are entering... but interesting nonetheless.
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Post by nabeav on Jun 14, 2017 9:39:58 GMT -8
Luke has no legal right to play baseball at Oregon State. Guys get scholarships pulled for just not fitting a coaches plan anymore, effectively ending their careers. Guys have been dismissed from teams for far less than Luke's situation. I think he has a case against law enforcement for wrongly citing him and damaging his future earning potential, but I don't think he has any legal recourse vs. Oregon State unless the kick him off campus.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jun 14, 2017 9:42:49 GMT -8
Ed Ray took a ton of **** from Penn State fans regarding the sanctions. To turn around and let Luke pitch is not going to go over well. Again I can see both sides of this and think Luke deserves a chance to lead a productive life in whatever field he can succeed in but I just don't see that happening at Oregon State. Best thing would be for him to get drafted today and move on to the minors First, Ed Ray didn't decide the sanctions. It was an extensive investigation by a committee that he was the figurehead. He had no power other than his position as part of the committee. Two, ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA to do with this. Three, that's part of the $ be earns. It's part of the job description. You make decisions, you catch flak. But, you don't make them based on public pressure... which by the way is 80% in favor of Luke in Omaha! Relating this to institutional cover ups and failures is again soooooo far of base you just have to wonder about some people and their abilities to process information. Also, those who think posts showing support for Luke is ignoring the crime or somehow forgetting the victim is equally puzzling in terms of someone's mental capabilities.
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