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Post by justdamwin on Oct 29, 2017 13:28:55 GMT -8
The triple option probably isn’t the answer but if the direction is an established HC, a system guy is a must. This were not sure our direction BS has to change. In Corvallis the HC must have direction and vision for both sides of the ball and win through longer term development (and redshirting) of players.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 13:31:02 GMT -8
So Georgia Tech has completely given up on its football program? If it works who cares what they run. I'm not in favor of a triple option based offense but if they find a guy that thinks he can win by running it and proves he can I'd support it 100% Yes, yes they have (imho)... Interesting, while if a conference championship, 4 division championships, and 2 Orange Bowls in 10 years is giving up on the football program than I support our AD giving up on the football program.
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Post by ostate on Oct 29, 2017 13:51:12 GMT -8
Yes, yes they have (imho)... Interesting, while if a conference championship, 4 division championships, and 2 Orange Bowls in 10 years is giving up on the football program than I support our AD giving up on the football program. I stand by opinion... it's a dreadful offense that I can't support and would get exposed in the P12...
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Post by mbabeav on Oct 30, 2017 10:03:08 GMT -8
A triple option can be blown up by speed in the defensive backfield, and what does the Pac-12 have in spades? Speed.
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Post by beavadelic on Oct 30, 2017 10:37:11 GMT -8
I have gotten on my soapbox several times recently to advocate the hiring of the best possible triple option coach and making a firm commitment to Triple option football as a foundation of Oregon State football.
Today I will be brief. If you are able to obtain it, watch the replay of the Colorado State University (yes the CSU that crushed the Beavers in game 1 this year) vs the Air Force Falcons (triple option offense). The game occurred today October 28th.
We all are aware of the recruiting disadvantages, etc., etc. that the military academies have. Despite this, look at both the process and the result of this game before you make a final judgment on my position.
Thank you for having an open mind-Go Beavs. First of all, I am not personally interested in seeing the triple option in Corvallis. As many have noted, “triple option” is deceptive, because even when it’s run to perfection and there are 3 viable options, it’s still totally one-dimensional. It seems like a pass-happy team can have some semblance of a run game, but with the wishbone - or derivatives of that formation - the forward pass is foreign. When it gets stuffed (and a lot of teams are good at taking away strengths in P5 conferences), it’s really frustrating, and very boring to watch. Definitely not a helpful come-from-behind offense. However, I have some connections with some local college coaches who repeatedly have asserted that Barnes has honed in on the Navy coach. He wants to bring in a proven head coach, and someone who will institute something totally different and exciting. While the “more exciting” is open to debate for each of us, he seems to feel that this guy and Calhoun are very viable options. The other name that comes up constantly among their ranks is Baldwin. I respect the work that the service academy guys do, both do a lot with less against an occasional big opponent. However, if it came down to the three, I would hands down want to see Baldwin. I like him anyway, and believe that even the skeptics would come around to his style of offensive football. Of course, if the Pirate slips out of Pullman for a job in the south like some are predicting, Baldwin would be on top of the Cougs short list, and tgat’s his stomping grounds, so....
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 30, 2017 11:08:36 GMT -8
A triple option can be blown up by speed in the defensive backfield, and what does the Pac-12 have in spades? Speed. The best gift you can ever give a defense is having to only defend one thing. GA was giving defenses a gift every week running read-option looks with Luton back there... You are right, the best defense against the triple option is a disciplined zone defense and OLBs and safeties that can run. Air Force is 42 for 83 passing for 903 yards, 4 TDs and 9 INTs this season Air Force looks to hit a long bomb a few times per game, and occasionally hits a TE in the redzone. That is about it. I cannot fathom how you could possibly recruit quality WRs and TEs to play on that offense. "Hey there young fella, how would you like to abandon all ambition you had to be a star WR in college and catch 1,500 yards and 10 TDs and be on sportscenter and come on down to OSU where we will teach you how to block on 99% of every snap you are in on? Imagine, if you will, the shear rush you will feel when you get 1 or 2 targets a game!" Triple option shoe horns you into non-translatable talent. if you ever want to shift gears, you are looking at a few year rebuild and talent acquisition.
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Post by mbabeav on Oct 30, 2017 11:28:51 GMT -8
A triple option can be blown up by speed in the defensive backfield, and what does the Pac-12 have in spades? Speed. The best gift you can ever give a defense is having to only defend one thing. GA was giving defenses a gift every week running read-option looks with Luton back there... You are right, the best defense against the triple option is a disciplined zone defense and OLBs and safeties that can run. Air Force is 42 for 83 passing for 903 yards, 4 TDs and 9 INTs this season Air Force looks to hit a long bomb a few times per game, and occasionally hits a TE in the redzone. That is about it. I cannot fathom how you could possibly recruit quality WRs and TEs to play on that offense. "Hey there young fella, how would you like to abandon all ambition you had to be a star WR in college and catch 1,500 yards and 10 TDs and be on sportscenter and come on down to OSU where we will teach you how to block on 99% of every snap you are in on? Imagine, if you will, the shear rush you will feel when you get 1 or 2 targets a game!" Triple option shoe horns you into non-translatable talent. if you ever want to shift gears, you are looking at a few year rebuild and talent acquisition. and we risk a return to the updated "(insert qb name here) shuffle"
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 30, 2017 13:13:53 GMT -8
Yes, yes they have (imho)... Interesting, while if a conference championship, 4 division championships, and 2 Orange Bowls in 10 years is giving up on the football program than I support our AD giving up on the football program. Georgia Tech is undefeated at home this year but is only averaging 44,600 in a 55,000-seat stadium in Midtown Atlanta. Georgia Tech's last ACC Championship was in 1990. 2009 was vacated for paying multiple players, including DeMaryius Thomas, and then instructing the players to lie about it after the fact. Thomas was a Chan Gailey holdover and seemed to be the heir apparent to take over Calvin Johnson's spot as the nation's premier wide receiver before Gailey was fired. In order to get four division championships, you have to go back to 2006, back when Georgia Tech ran a prostyle offense. Are you counting 2008? Georgia Tech tied Virginia Tech for the Coastal crown at 5-3. 2008 was bizarre. The top four teams in the ACC were each 5-3 in conference; six finished 4-4; Virginia (Coastal) was 3-5, and Duke (Coastal) was 1-7. The 3-5 Cavaliers beat the Rambling Wreck in Atlanta and also lost to USC by 45 points at home. Oregon State would defeat that same USC team later in the year. The Atlantic Division was 12-7 against the Coastal Division. According to Sagarin, Georgia Tech was the eighth-best team in the ACC but played the second softest schedule. Georgia Tech won the Coastal crown in 2009, but multiple games were vacated for paying multiple players, including Thomas, and then instructing the players to lie about it after the fact. The Coastal crown is still Tech's, but there was no champion of the ACC in 2009. The ACC was rated as the fourth-best conference in 2009, a spot behind the Pac-10. In 2012, Georgia Tech went 6-6. North Carolina won the Coastal crown. Miami finished second. However, both Miami and North Carolina were on probation in 2012. Because of that, third place Georgia Tech, who went 5-3 in conference and 6-6 overall, represented the Coastal Division in the ACC Championship Game. The Rambling Wreck's crossover opponent was 2-6 Maryland (read weakest Georgia Tech schedule possible). Virginia Tech finished fourth and beat Georgia Tech. However, the Hokies crossover opponent was 7-1 Florida State (read most difficult Virginia Tech schedule possible). (The other two common crossover opponents were Boston College and Clemson.) The ACC finished as the sixth best conference. (Behind the Big East and seventh if you include the independents.) The Rambling Wreck lost the ACC Championship Game in Charlotte, a four hour drive from Atlanta, to Florida State to finish the regular season 6-7. In 2014, Georgia Tech won the Coastal Division. Duke almost had the division wrapped up, up by a game with three remaining and with the tiebreaker. However the Devils missed a 40-yard field goal with 2:26 left against Virginia Tech to lose 17-16. Five days later, the Devils had to play the rival Tar Heels. Duke lost again to hand the Division to Georgia Tech. Florida State beat Georgia Tech in the ACC Championship Game in Charlotte, a four hour drive from Atlanta. Because the Seminoles qualified for the first CFP, the Orange Bowl was obligated to invite the Rambling Wreck to play in it. 58,211 showed up, the lowest attended Orange Bowl since the 1993 Orange Bowl after the 1992 season. The ACC Coastal finished worse than the SEC East and West, Pac-12 North and South, Big 12, and Big Ten East, finishing only ahead of the lowly Big Ten West among Power 5 conferences. Two of the three lowest-attended Orange Bowls in the past 20 years have involved Georgia Tech and its triple option offense. The third was the 2011 Orange Bowl, Virginia Tech-Stanford (and the Cardinal's apathetic fans). Georgia Tech has won zero conference championships, two division championships, and 1 Orange Bowls (as the second best ACC team in a down year for the ACC Coastal) in 10 years. It seems to me that Georgia Tech could really be a recruiting Mecca, if they dumped the flexbone, a school in a major city in the talent-laden Southeast. Instead, the Rambling Wreck seem satisfied to be an also-ran in a terrible division within a terrible conference, where multiple division foes seem to habitually be on probation. In short, Georgia Tech can run a gimmicky offense like the flexbone in a terrible division within a terrible conference, where multiple division foes seem to habitually be on probation. It would not work in the Pac-12.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 14:03:10 GMT -8
Interesting, while if a conference championship, 4 division championships, and 2 Orange Bowls in 10 years is giving up on the football program than I support our AD giving up on the football program. Georgia Tech is undefeated at home this year but is only averaging 44,600 in a 55,000-seat stadium in Midtown Atlanta. Georgia Tech's last ACC Championship was in 1990. 2009 was vacated for paying multiple players, including DeMaryius Thomas, and then instructing the players to lie about it after the fact. Thomas was a Chan Gailey holdover and seemed to be the heir apparent to take over Calvin Johnson's spot as the nation's premier wide receiver before Gailey was fired. In order to get four division championships, you have to go back to 2006, back when Georgia Tech ran a prostyle offense. Are you counting 2008? Georgia Tech tied Virginia Tech for the Coastal crown at 5-3. 2008 was bizarre. The top four teams in the ACC were each 5-3 in conference; six finished 4-4; Virginia (Coastal) was 3-5, and Duke (Coastal) was 1-7. The 3-5 Cavaliers beat the Rambling Wreck in Atlanta and also lost to USC by 45 points at home. Oregon State would defeat that same USC team later in the year. The Atlantic Division was 12-7 against the Coastal Division. According to Sagarin, Georgia Tech was the eighth-best team in the ACC but played the second softest schedule. Georgia Tech won the Coastal crown in 2009, but multiple games were vacated for paying multiple players, including Thomas, and then instructing the players to lie about it after the fact. The Coastal crown is still Tech's, but there was no champion of the ACC in 2009. The ACC was rated as the fourth-best conference in 2009, a spot behind the Pac-10. In 2012, Georgia Tech went 6-6. North Carolina won the Coastal crown. Miami finished second. However, both Miami and North Carolina were on probation in 2012. Because of that, third place Georgia Tech, who went 5-3 in conference and 6-6 overall, represented the Coastal Division in the ACC Championship Game. The Rambling Wreck's crossover opponent was 2-6 Maryland (read weakest Georgia Tech schedule possible). Virginia Tech finished fourth and beat Georgia Tech. However, the Hokies crossover opponent was 7-1 Florida State (read most difficult Virginia Tech schedule possible). (The other two common crossover opponents were Boston College and Clemson.) The ACC finished as the sixth best conference. (Behind the Big East and seventh if you include the independents.) The Rambling Wreck lost the ACC Championship Game in Charlotte, a four hour drive from Atlanta, to Florida State to finish the regular season 6-7. In 2014, Georgia Tech won the Coastal Division. Duke almost had the division wrapped up, up by a game with three remaining and with the tiebreaker. However the Devils missed a 40-yard field goal with 2:26 left against Virginia Tech to lose 17-16. Five days later, the Devils had to play the rival Tar Heels. Duke lost again to hand the Division to Georgia Tech. Florida State beat Georgia Tech in the ACC Championship Game in Charlotte, a four hour drive from Atlanta. Because the Seminoles qualified for the first CFP, the Orange Bowl was obligated to invite the Rambling Wreck to play in it. 58,211 showed up, the lowest attended Orange Bowl since the 1993 Orange Bowl after the 1992 season. The ACC Coastal finished worst than the SEC East and West, Pac-12 North and South, Big 12, and Big Ten East, finishing only ahead of the lowly Big Ten West among Power 5 conferences. Two of the three lowest-attended Orange Bowls in the past 20 years have involved Georgia Tech and its triple option offense. The third was the 2011 Orange Bowl, Virginia Tech-Stanford (and the Cardinal's apathetic fans). Georgia Tech has won zero conference championships, two division championships, and 1 Orange Bowls (as the second best ACC team in a down year for the ACC Coastal) in 10 years. It seems to me that Georgia Tech could really be a recruiting Mecca, if they dumped the flexbone, a school in a major city in the talent-laden Southeast. Instead, the Rambling Wreck seem satisfied to be an also-ran in a terrible division within a terrible conference, where multiple division foes seem to habitually be on probation. In short, Georgia Tech can run a gimmicky offense like the flexbone in a terrible division within a terrible conference, where multiple division foes seem to habitually be on probation. It would not work in the Pac-12. I don't buy into the vacated stuff. The games were played, they happened. From a fans perspective they got to enjoy those games and that season. And I wouldn't care if OSU's major Bowl games were scarcely attended, they'd still be there. Note: I am not favoring the flex bone, just disagree that its giving up on the program. I want the team to win, don't really care what offense they use to accomplish that.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 30, 2017 14:09:11 GMT -8
Georgia Tech is undefeated at home this year but is only averaging 44,600 in a 55,000-seat stadium in Midtown Atlanta. Georgia Tech's last ACC Championship was in 1990. 2009 was vacated for paying multiple players, including DeMaryius Thomas, and then instructing the players to lie about it after the fact. Thomas was a Chan Gailey holdover and seemed to be the heir apparent to take over Calvin Johnson's spot as the nation's premier wide receiver before Gailey was fired. In order to get four division championships, you have to go back to 2006, back when Georgia Tech ran a prostyle offense. Are you counting 2008? Georgia Tech tied Virginia Tech for the Coastal crown at 5-3. 2008 was bizarre. The top four teams in the ACC were each 5-3 in conference; six finished 4-4; Virginia (Coastal) was 3-5, and Duke (Coastal) was 1-7. The 3-5 Cavaliers beat the Rambling Wreck in Atlanta and also lost to USC by 45 points at home. Oregon State would defeat that same USC team later in the year. The Atlantic Division was 12-7 against the Coastal Division. According to Sagarin, Georgia Tech was the eighth-best team in the ACC but played the second softest schedule. Georgia Tech won the Coastal crown in 2009, but multiple games were vacated for paying multiple players, including Thomas, and then instructing the players to lie about it after the fact. The Coastal crown is still Tech's, but there was no champion of the ACC in 2009. The ACC was rated as the fourth-best conference in 2009, a spot behind the Pac-10. In 2012, Georgia Tech went 6-6. North Carolina won the Coastal crown. Miami finished second. However, both Miami and North Carolina were on probation in 2012. Because of that, third place Georgia Tech, who went 5-3 in conference and 6-6 overall, represented the Coastal Division in the ACC Championship Game. The Rambling Wreck's crossover opponent was 2-6 Maryland (read weakest Georgia Tech schedule possible). Virginia Tech finished fourth and beat Georgia Tech. However, the Hokies crossover opponent was 7-1 Florida State (read most difficult Virginia Tech schedule possible). (The other two common crossover opponents were Boston College and Clemson.) The ACC finished as the sixth best conference. (Behind the Big East and seventh if you include the independents.) The Rambling Wreck lost the ACC Championship Game in Charlotte, a four hour drive from Atlanta, to Florida State to finish the regular season 6-7. In 2014, Georgia Tech won the Coastal Division. Duke almost had the division wrapped up, up by a game with three remaining and with the tiebreaker. However the Devils missed a 40-yard field goal with 2:26 left against Virginia Tech to lose 17-16. Five days later, the Devils had to play the rival Tar Heels. Duke lost again to hand the Division to Georgia Tech. Florida State beat Georgia Tech in the ACC Championship Game in Charlotte, a four hour drive from Atlanta. Because the Seminoles qualified for the first CFP, the Orange Bowl was obligated to invite the Rambling Wreck to play in it. 58,211 showed up, the lowest attended Orange Bowl since the 1993 Orange Bowl after the 1992 season. The ACC Coastal finished worst than the SEC East and West, Pac-12 North and South, Big 12, and Big Ten East, finishing only ahead of the lowly Big Ten West among Power 5 conferences. Two of the three lowest-attended Orange Bowls in the past 20 years have involved Georgia Tech and its triple option offense. The third was the 2011 Orange Bowl, Virginia Tech-Stanford (and the Cardinal's apathetic fans). Georgia Tech has won zero conference championships, two division championships, and 1 Orange Bowls (as the second best ACC team in a down year for the ACC Coastal) in 10 years. It seems to me that Georgia Tech could really be a recruiting Mecca, if they dumped the flexbone, a school in a major city in the talent-laden Southeast. Instead, the Rambling Wreck seem satisfied to be an also-ran in a terrible division within a terrible conference, where multiple division foes seem to habitually be on probation. In short, Georgia Tech can run a gimmicky offense like the flexbone in a terrible division within a terrible conference, where multiple division foes seem to habitually be on probation. It would not work in the Pac-12. I don't buy into the vacated stuff. The games were played, they happened. From a fans perspective they got to enjoy those games and that season. And I wouldn't care if OSU's major Bowl games were scarcely attended, they'd still be there. Note: I am not favoring the flex bone, just disagree that its giving up on the program. I want the team to win, don't really care what offense they use to accomplish that. And I'm saying that we could be a second-rate team with the flexbone, if Oregon State played in a major metropolitan area in a talent-rich area of the country. As it is, if Oregon State started playing flexbone, the Beavers would be Pettibone bad again, if not worse.
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Post by grackle on Oct 31, 2017 15:37:53 GMT -8
Oh pulllleeeeze god....not another (i.e., Pettibone-ish) go-round with an offense guaranteed to fail in the speed-happy PAC12. Army/Navy run this dead-end offense because the service academies can't recruit NFL-quality talent.
Option football is boring and it's small-time. If Barnes is going that direction than he's likely not much better at being AD than his side-kick Anderson was at coaching.
One other minor thing...FWIW, I have no intention of continuing to spend literally thousands of $$$ on season tix for Pettibone, part deux.
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Post by spudbeaver on Oct 31, 2017 20:47:13 GMT -8
PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD!!! I beeseech you to do the right thing.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 31, 2017 22:01:16 GMT -8
I'll say this for one thing.... I love watching the Triple Option when it's done right and is working. I just don't think it'll work unless absoultely everything falls together perfectly.
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Post by kersting13 on Nov 1, 2017 8:21:11 GMT -8
Oh pulllleeeeze god....not another (i.e., Pettibone-ish) go-round with an offense guaranteed to fail in the speed-happy PAC12. Army/Navy run this dead-end offense because the service academies can't recruit NFL-quality talent. Option football is boring and it's small-time. If Barnes is going that direction than he's likely not much better at being AD than his side-kick Anderson was at coaching. One other minor thing...FWIW, I have no intention of continuing to spend literally thousands of $$$ on season tix for Pettibone, part deux. IF Scott Barnes is truly considering someone like the Navy coach, he needs a history lesson in OSU football. I suspect there are a LOT of people who hold the same sour left-over feelings about "option football" from the Pettibone era as you and I do. It would be a huge issue for many of the long-time season ticket holders who were willing to give it a go the first time around, but would be super pissed if they gave it a second try here.
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Post by skyrider on Nov 1, 2017 10:09:31 GMT -8
The only successful era in the last 40 or so years in OSU football has been highlighted by a foundation of:
A definitive somewhat unique offense system (pro set) and a successful "coaching up" of recruits who were not considered to be "good enough" in most cases for PAC 10/12 football. I am talking about the Mike Riley era.
It is incredible that so many Beaver fans (as evidenced by many comments in this thread) are:
(1) Unable or unwilling to see that the triple option headed by an outstanding coach of that system who has a proven record of "coaching up" recruits (virtually all military academy players were considered to not be good enough to play at the level they are now succeeding at.) would give the Beavers a similar situation to the only good run we have had in the last 40 years.
(2) So willing to be the "fall guy" for the rest of the PAC 12 by trying to win by out doing the other schools at spending money, attracting athletes from Florida, California and Texas who are 4 and 5 star recruits, etc., etc.
Finally comparing all triple option football to the Pettibone era, is like saying no pizza is any good because you had a bad slice once in your life.
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