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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 12, 2018 13:39:39 GMT -8
This was the 123rd-best rushing defense in FBS last year, eighth from the bottom. Just for fun, Oregon State rush defense by year: 2014: 87
2015: 1122016: 114
2017: 123What I am hearing from you is that, basically, next year is a lost cause defense-wise. Is that right? No TEDbacker means that, unless Oregon State goes eight in the box, the Beavers will not be able to consistently stop downhill runners. A complete inability to stop never really spells great season to me. In mulling over Oregon State's situation, I think the one year that Oregon State could have pulled off a serviceable 3-4 was 2014. Too many linebackers and tweeners, like Wynn, with not enough spots to play 'em. In all other years in the past decade, I never saw the Beavers with enough big bodies to pull off a 3-4. (Of course, Oregon State was not trying to recruit players to fit a 3-4..........) I do think we need to find a TED backer to make this a good defense, yes. Good to me, for the sake of establishing terms, is top 25. I think just having defensive coaches that know what they are doing is going to make an enormous improvement. Usually when you have a new staff come in, there is a drop-off or regression that happens for a year or maybe even 2. The bar was set so low that there's almost literally nowhere to go but up. David Morris was our 2nd leading tackler, as a DB, while only playing in 11 games and only starting 8. Jalen Moore was our 3rd leading tackler, only starting 10 games. The middle of our defense was that putrid. high quality coaching isn't going to turn around our defense overnight... but what it means is a MLB will be sticking a RB at his level instead of not being in position, or getting swallowed up in a second level block. It means that we will be giving up 2-3 yards up the middle instead of 5 or more because the safeties are making all the tackles. Ultimately do we get off the field with that? do we give up fewer points? probably a little, but it will take a big shift in our player type to really move the needle. So in the end, yes, competent play will greatly help things. but, we do need a Jimmy and Joe fix along with our X's and O fix.
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Post by orangeattack on Feb 12, 2018 15:23:38 GMT -8
I do think we need to find a TED backer to make this a good defense, yes. Good to me, for the sake of establishing terms, is top 25. I think just having defensive coaches that know what they are doing is going to make an enormous improvement. Usually when you have a new staff come in, there is a drop-off or regression that happens for a year or maybe even 2. The bar was set so low that there's almost literally nowhere to go but up. David Morris was our 2nd leading tackler, as a DB, while only playing in 11 games and only starting 8. Jalen Moore was our 3rd leading tackler, only starting 10 games. The middle of our defense was that putrid. high quality coaching isn't going to turn around our defense overnight... but what it means is a MLB will be sticking a RB at his level instead of not being in position, or getting swallowed up in a second level block. It means that we will be giving up 2-3 yards up the middle instead of 5 or more because the safeties are making all the tackles. Ultimately do we get off the field with that? do we give up fewer points? probably a little, but it will take a big shift in our player type to really move the needle. So in the end, yes, competent play will greatly help things. but, we do need a Jimmy and Joe fix along with our X's and O fix. So let's take the discussion to the next logical step. Who can we plug in to play TED right away? It appears that Tago passes the uniform test.. Emony Robinson packed on some weight to that lanky frame but I don't see him being a stand up DL. I use Alan Darlin as my blueprint for a TED backer. That's the type of physical body you want to see at that spot, a guy who can and will bullrush an interior offensive lineman.
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Post by obf on Feb 12, 2018 15:32:36 GMT -8
I do think we need to find a TED backer to make this a good defense, yes. Good to me, for the sake of establishing terms, is top 25. I think just having defensive coaches that know what they are doing is going to make an enormous improvement. Usually when you have a new staff come in, there is a drop-off or regression that happens for a year or maybe even 2. The bar was set so low that there's almost literally nowhere to go but up. David Morris was our 2nd leading tackler, as a DB, while only playing in 11 games and only starting 8. Jalen Moore was our 3rd leading tackler, only starting 10 games. The middle of our defense was that putrid. high quality coaching isn't going to turn around our defense overnight... but what it means is a MLB will be sticking a RB at his level instead of not being in position, or getting swallowed up in a second level block. It means that we will be giving up 2-3 yards up the middle instead of 5 or more because the safeties are making all the tackles. Ultimately do we get off the field with that? do we give up fewer points? probably a little, but it will take a big shift in our player type to really move the needle. So in the end, yes, competent play will greatly help things. but, we do need a Jimmy and Joe fix along with our X's and O fix. Man, what a revelation it will be!!! Sure maybe a top 50 defense doesn't come along with the improved fundamentals, technique, teaching and adjustments, but I bet we can get back to those lofty standard 2014 set.... High EIGHTIES baby! I'll just be happy to see less than 5 missed tackles a game! There were plays last year that had five missed tackles in a single play! I would be willing to bet half of Morris and Moores tackles last year were of ball carriers that had already shed a tackle or two... Either an LB launching himself at someone and missing, or easily being sidestepped or a defender filling a hole, but in reality just being an extra blocker as the runner bounced off and spun or jump cut to the next hole and the trailing defenders get shielded by the guy who missed the tackle... Pursuant to the Brandin Cooks thread... I am all for protecting guys and their health, with the side benefit that teaching proper tackling technique might bring good tackling back into vogue. It may be a little more boring, less huge hits and less amazing runs, but it sure will be more effective
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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 12, 2018 15:35:23 GMT -8
David Morris was our 2nd leading tackler, as a DB, while only playing in 11 games and only starting 8. Jalen Moore was our 3rd leading tackler, only starting 10 games. The middle of our defense was that putrid. high quality coaching isn't going to turn around our defense overnight... but what it means is a MLB will be sticking a RB at his level instead of not being in position, or getting swallowed up in a second level block. It means that we will be giving up 2-3 yards up the middle instead of 5 or more because the safeties are making all the tackles. Ultimately do we get off the field with that? do we give up fewer points? probably a little, but it will take a big shift in our player type to really move the needle. So in the end, yes, competent play will greatly help things. but, we do need a Jimmy and Joe fix along with our X's and O fix. So let's take the discussion to the next logical step. Who can we plug in to play TED right away? It appears that Tago passes the uniform test.. Emony Robinson packed on some weight to that lanky frame but I don't see him being a stand up DL. I use Alan Darlin as my blueprint for a TED backer. That's the type of physical body you want to see at that spot, a guy who can and will bullrush an interior offensive lineman. I kinda wonder if you can take a guy like Thor Katoa, all 6-2" 270 of him and make him play stand up between the tackles there. He was set to play a 5 tech DE. do you weaken your think DL by moving a guy back? or do you do what you said and hope Emory puts on enough beef and Hughes-Murray keeps his beef? It is pretty skinny after those two. Our roster is pretty skinny all around...
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Post by obf on Feb 12, 2018 15:41:52 GMT -8
David Morris was our 2nd leading tackler, as a DB, while only playing in 11 games and only starting 8. Jalen Moore was our 3rd leading tackler, only starting 10 games. The middle of our defense was that putrid. high quality coaching isn't going to turn around our defense overnight... but what it means is a MLB will be sticking a RB at his level instead of not being in position, or getting swallowed up in a second level block. It means that we will be giving up 2-3 yards up the middle instead of 5 or more because the safeties are making all the tackles. Ultimately do we get off the field with that? do we give up fewer points? probably a little, but it will take a big shift in our player type to really move the needle. So in the end, yes, competent play will greatly help things. but, we do need a Jimmy and Joe fix along with our X's and O fix. So let's take the discussion to the next logical step. Who can we plug in to play TED right away? It appears that Tago passes the uniform test.. Emony Robinson packed on some weight to that lanky frame but I don't see him being a stand up DL. I use Alan Darlin as my blueprint for a TED backer. That's the type of physical body you want to see at that spot, a guy who can and will bullrush an interior offensive lineman. I REALLY liked what I saw from Jonathan Willis last year, and Isaac Garcia being back in the fold might provide some surprises, although neither guy is huge... Hughes-Murry is the most obvious guy as he has a bit more size and the experience to step up. Tago stepping in as a true freshman and lighting the world on fire would be a significant surprise, I of course would love to see it... It would also be awesome to see Thor Katoa be a guy that comes into his own. A 3 star who was recruited as an ILB, roster shows him as a DE, and a robust 6'2" and 270, but He could slim back down a bit and be that bull in the middle... Plus how awesome is his name! THOR!
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Post by obf on Feb 12, 2018 15:42:18 GMT -8
So let's take the discussion to the next logical step. Who can we plug in to play TED right away? It appears that Tago passes the uniform test.. Emony Robinson packed on some weight to that lanky frame but I don't see him being a stand up DL. I use Alan Darlin as my blueprint for a TED backer. That's the type of physical body you want to see at that spot, a guy who can and will bullrush an interior offensive lineman. I kinda wonder if you can take a guy like Thor Katoa, all 6-2" 270 of him and make him play stand up between the tackles there. He was set to play a 5 tech DE. do you weaken your think DL by moving a guy back? or do you do what you said and hope Emory puts on enough beef and Hughes-Murray keeps his beef? It is pretty skinny after those two. Our roster is pretty skinny all around... Jinx He was recruited as an ILB, of course he was 225 lbs back then
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Post by seastape on Feb 12, 2018 16:04:28 GMT -8
I kinda wonder if you can take a guy like Thor Katoa, all 6-2" 270 of him and make him play stand up between the tackles there. He was set to play a 5 tech DE. do you weaken your think DL by moving a guy back? or do you do what you said and hope Emory puts on enough beef and Hughes-Murray keeps his beef? It is pretty skinny after those two. Our roster is pretty skinny all around... Jinx He was recruited as an ILB, of course he was 225 lbs back then I was thinking about Katoa as an ILB, as well. My question is: has anyone seen the guy play? I don't recall him ever being in a game and always wondered why. Too slow? Too light? Not tough enough, at least according to anderyacks standards? I thought I had read some pretty good things when he was recruited and since then...zip.
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Post by orangeattack on Feb 12, 2018 16:05:02 GMT -8
Katoa looks like the most likely character to move to the middle to me.
Where did Ricky Liuchan end up? Wonder if he would have fewer issues with injuries if he weren't asked to line up with a hand in the dirt.
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Post by blackbug on Feb 12, 2018 20:00:43 GMT -8
I was thinking about Katoa as an ILB, as well. My question is: has anyone seen the guy play? I don't recall him ever being in a game and always wondered why. Too slow? Too light? Not tough enough, at least according to anderyacks standards? I thought I had read some pretty good things when he was recruited and since then...zip.
Katoa has been injured most of his career. Unfortunately for him. These were not doubtful injuries most of the time. He has been out almost 2 full seasons, I believe.
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Post by blackbug on Feb 12, 2018 20:14:07 GMT -8
So let's take the discussion to the next logical step. Who can we plug in to play TED right away? It appears that Tago passes the uniform test.. Emony Robinson packed on some weight to that lanky frame but I don't see him being a stand up DL. I use Alan Darlin as my blueprint for a TED backer. That's the type of physical body you want to see at that spot, a guy who can and will bullrush an interior offensive lineman. I kinda wonder if you can take a guy like Thor Katoa, all 6-2" 270 of him and make him play stand up between the tackles there. He was set to play a 5 tech DE. do you weaken your think DL by moving a guy back? or do you do what you said and hope Emory puts on enough beef and Hughes-Murray keeps his beef? It is pretty skinny after those two. Our roster is pretty skinny all around... Are we looking at the same roster? All but 4 scholarship linebackers are within 5-10 lbs of Hughes-Murray. I agree their play last year made them look skinny, but not their listed playing weight. There are 7 available linebackers that weigh 235 or more. This does not count Garcia, who is list at 225. I know this is not true as his last weight which is not longer listed was 250. I think Garcia will actually be a DE. Take this for what it is worth as a rumor, but I heard some talk that Hughes-Murray and Ah-Hoy are considering medically retiring. The hyphenated names on the roster would take a huge hit if true . In all seriousness I would hate to see them have to retire.
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 12, 2018 20:20:33 GMT -8
I kinda wonder if you can take a guy like Thor Katoa, all 6-2" 270 of him and make him play stand up between the tackles there. He was set to play a 5 tech DE. do you weaken your think DL by moving a guy back? or do you do what you said and hope Emory puts on enough beef and Hughes-Murray keeps his beef? It is pretty skinny after those two. Our roster is pretty skinny all around... Are we looking at the same roster? All but 4 scholarship linebackers are within 5-10 lbs of Hughes-Murray. I agree their play last year made them look skinny, but not their listed playing weight. There are 7 available linebackers that weigh 235 or more. This does not count Garcia, who is list at 225. I know this is not true as his last weight which is not longer listed was 250. I think Garcia will actually be a DE. Take this for what it is worth as a rumor, but I heard some talk that Hughes-Murray and Ah-Hoy are considering medically retiring. The hyphenated names on the roster would take a huge hit if true . In all seriousness I would hate to see them have to retire. Well, that would double suck! Hughes-Murray showed some bright spots at the end of the year. I thought he might be our biggest impact hyphenated player since DJ Welch-Alexander!
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Post by obf on Feb 13, 2018 7:19:04 GMT -8
I kinda wonder if you can take a guy like Thor Katoa, all 6-2" 270 of him and make him play stand up between the tackles there. He was set to play a 5 tech DE. do you weaken your think DL by moving a guy back? or do you do what you said and hope Emory puts on enough beef and Hughes-Murray keeps his beef? It is pretty skinny after those two. Our roster is pretty skinny all around... Are we looking at the same roster? All but 4 scholarship linebackers are within 5-10 lbs of Hughes-Murray. I agree their play last year made them look skinny, but not their listed playing weight. There are 7 available linebackers that weigh 235 or more. This does not count Garcia, who is list at 225. I know this is not true as his last weight which is not longer listed was 250. I think Garcia will actually be a DE. Take this for what it is worth as a rumor, but I heard some talk that Hughes-Murray and Ah-Hoy are considering medically retiring. The hyphenated names on the roster would take a huge hit if true . In all seriousness I would hate to see them have to retire. Dang, those two retiring would REALLY suck! Those were two of the few returning LB that had some experience.... That would be a big blow... I don't recall... were they both injured at the end of last year?
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Post by kersting13 on Feb 13, 2018 8:48:36 GMT -8
Are we looking at the same roster? All but 4 scholarship linebackers are within 5-10 lbs of Hughes-Murray. I agree their play last year made them look skinny, but not their listed playing weight. There are 7 available linebackers that weigh 235 or more. This does not count Garcia, who is list at 225. I know this is not true as his last weight which is not longer listed was 250. I think Garcia will actually be a DE. Take this for what it is worth as a rumor, but I heard some talk that Hughes-Murray and Ah-Hoy are considering medically retiring. The hyphenated names on the roster would take a huge hit if true . In all seriousness I would hate to see them have to retire. Dang, those two retiring would REALLY suck! Those were two of the few returning LB that had some experience.... That would be a big blow... I don't recall... were they both injured at the end of last year? Ah-Hoy played in the first 5 games and then sat out the remainder of the year. Hughes-Murray played in all 12 games.
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 13, 2018 8:54:08 GMT -8
Didn't Ah-hoy return kickoff's for a while? It seems absolutely nuts, which is why it is a distinct possibility!
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Post by blackbug on Feb 13, 2018 10:00:29 GMT -8
Are we looking at the same roster? All but 4 scholarship linebackers are within 5-10 lbs of Hughes-Murray. I agree their play last year made them look skinny, but not their listed playing weight. There are 7 available linebackers that weigh 235 or more. This does not count Garcia, who is list at 225. I know this is not true as his last weight which is not longer listed was 250. I think Garcia will actually be a DE. Take this for what it is worth as a rumor, but I heard some talk that Hughes-Murray and Ah-Hoy are considering medically retiring. The hyphenated names on the roster would take a huge hit if true . In all seriousness I would hate to see them have to retire. Dang, those two retiring would REALLY suck! Those were two of the few returning LB that had some experience.... That would be a big blow... I don't recall... were they both injured at the end of last year? Hughes-Murray has had some hamstring problems and has been dinged up pretty often. He did play all year last year, so I was surprised to hear the rumor. Ah-Hoy had a season ending injury. Information on the injury was never released, to my knowledge.
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