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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 4, 2015 8:51:56 GMT -8
Collins to his credit has not been an interception machine and has thrown some Nice and accurate long range passes this year on long balls. I don't think the knock on him is all about his accuracy passing but more about composure and being able to make the key good decisions to command the offense on the run options or passing with pressure. He has made some awful throws on crossing routes that let the DB's have those big time shots on the receivers, but overall it doesn't seem like there has been much short passing game with him and that was a key difference with Mitchell against Utah as he was hitting some of those short passes and we seemed to have fewer 3 and outs. Having some success running maybe hurt Collins? (maybe trying to do too much himself to get those big runs instead of passing or handing it off???) In 7 games (really, 6.5) and with 81 total completions Collins has 6 completed passes over 25 yards. In 2 games (really 1.5) Mitchel has 4 completed passes over 25 yards and 59 total completed passes. I'm seeing Mitchell with 59 attempts, 28 completed, a lower completion percentage, a lower TD/INT rate, a slightly lower yards per attempt rate, and an 11 point lower QB rating than Seth has so far this season. Stats is probably not the best way to make a comparison. i like some things I see from both kids.
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Post by beaver24 on Nov 4, 2015 10:23:08 GMT -8
Too bad Mitchel didn't get to play against Weber State and San Jose St nice stat bumps.
Just use the eye test it is so easy to see.
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 4, 2015 10:49:05 GMT -8
Believe what you want to believe, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. You're talking out your ass, so that's probably good advice. Just wait, all will be revealed Daniel-san. Now sand the floor.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 4, 2015 12:53:46 GMT -8
In 7 games (really, 6.5) and with 81 total completions Collins has 6 completed passes over 25 yards. In 2 games (really 1.5) Mitchel has 4 completed passes over 25 yards and 59 total completed passes. I'm seeing Mitchell with 59 attempts, 28 completed, a lower completion percentage, a lower TD/INT rate, a slightly lower yards per attempt rate, and an 11 point lower QB rating than Seth has so far this season. Stats is probably not the best way to make a comparison. i like some things I see from both kids. Well, if you blindly use stats with no context behind them sure. Mitchel has played about a game and a half. maybe a game and 3/4ths. What I am getting at is in his, call it 1.75, games Mitchel has already showed a better long arm that Collins. he clearly has a better short game arm too. He has done this with far less practice reps and far less time under center. Collin's has shown exactly zero meaningful improvement this season in the passing game. In 6.25 real games, Collins is not quite a 52% passer with 890 yards 6 TDs and 4 INTS. that is abysmal any way you slice it. that is not quite a 1800 yard 12 TD 8 INT year. Mitchel is nearly has half of Collin's passing yards in 1.75 games... Mitchel poor outing at Colorado (on the back of barely a week to prepare) was still better than 3 of Collin's 6 games... Mitchel's Utah performance was better than 5 of 6 Collin starts. Then of course there is using your good old eyeballs. If you cannot see that Mitchel is the more polished, more poised QB in the pocket and appears to have better command of the offense and reads on the defense... man, I dunno what to tell you. We saw against Utah the read option leash being loosened for Mitchel and he made a few really good read and keeps that let him run. While Mitchel isn't close to as dynamic as Collins while running... I'd wager Mitchel could be more effective as a runner than Collins if he continues his improvements in passing... because with Mitchel they will actually have to respect a passing game. Because with Mitchel not every single play is going to be a QB keeper!
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Post by nabeav on Nov 4, 2015 13:58:20 GMT -8
Keep arguing all you want, guys. Garretson's the guy next year.
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Post by obf on Nov 4, 2015 14:17:50 GMT -8
Keep arguing all you want, guys. Garretson's the guy next year. Yup, and then Mason Moran after that... Although I agree that Mitchell is the better QB to play out the rest of the year... I wish they had made that choice to start the year. Seth should start practicing running routes and fly sweeps, because it would be a shame to waste his athleticism as QB4. Finally, they thing you guys are missing with all the discussion on passing stats is that PASSING is NOT why Seth lost his hold on the QB job... It was the constant mis reads on the Zone Read plays, where he would pre determine give or pull *before* the snap and thus end up giving the ball to a RB with no chance, or pulling the ball and running into no chance. Even in his 1.75 games Mitchell's reads have been somewhat of a revelation. One of the reasons Nall got nary a carry against Utah is that on the zone read play the defense was solely focusing on Nall, for good reason, so Mitchell pulled it every time and got positive yards most of the time. No matter what... GO BEAVS, Ruin the Bruins!
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 4, 2015 14:26:08 GMT -8
I'm seeing Mitchell with 59 attempts, 28 completed, a lower completion percentage, a lower TD/INT rate, a slightly lower yards per attempt rate, and an 11 point lower QB rating than Seth has so far this season. Stats is probably not the best way to make a comparison. i like some things I see from both kids. Well, if you blindly use stats with no context behind them sure. Mitchel has played about a game and a half. maybe a game and 3/4ths. What I am getting at is in his, call it 1.75, games Mitchel has already showed a better long arm that Collins. he clearly has a better short game arm too. He has done this with far less practice reps and far less time under center. Collin's has shown exactly zero meaningful improvement this season in the passing game. In 6.25 real games, Collins is not quite a 52% passer with 890 yards 6 TDs and 4 INTS. that is abysmal any way you slice it. that is not quite a 1800 yard 12 TD 8 INT year. Mitchel is nearly has half of Collin's passing yards in 1.75 games... Mitchel poor outing at Colorado (on the back of barely a week to prepare) was still better than 3 of Collin's 6 games... Mitchel's Utah performance was better than 5 of 6 Collin starts. Then of course there is using your good old eyeballs. If you cannot see that Mitchel is the more polished, more poised QB in the pocket and appears to have better command of the offense and reads on the defense... man, I dunno what to tell you. We saw against Utah the read option leash being loosened for Mitchel and he made a few really good read and keeps that let him run. While Mitchel isn't close to as dynamic as Collins while running... I'd wager Mitchel could be more effective as a runner than Collins if he continues his improvements in passing... because with Mitchel they will actually have to respect a passing game. Because with Mitchel not every single play is going to be a QB keeper! Just saying stats don't tell the whole story. I actually think Mitchell might be a better short term answer, but am not writing off Collins in the least, he had shown improvement through the Stanford game, regressed the last 2 games though, I kind of expected that just like I expect Mitchell not to have 7 straight games of improvement. Based on the first 2 games of each, I'd put Mitchell as the better QB of the 2 for now, with Collins having the bigger potential upside. I'm one of the guys who could never understand why Ian Shields wasn't THE GUY for most of his OSU career. He wasn't as fast or flashy as the alternatives, but I felt the O clicked better with him in. I've yet to see sustained offense with either of these kids, but both show some promise in different ways.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 4, 2015 14:56:43 GMT -8
Keep arguing all you want, guys. Garretson's the guy next year. sure. but next year is not this year, or the next 4 games for that matter. 6-6 would be a lot better than 2-10. Garretson ain't gonna help us with that right now. (and to be fair, neither is anything we the fans say on these boards). I am also in the camp that Garrettson is the guy next year for the short term, Moran redshirts and then we will see in 2017 what shakes out. but who knows.
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 4, 2015 17:30:33 GMT -8
Keep arguing all you want, guys. Garretson's the guy next year. Well duh.
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 4, 2015 17:31:42 GMT -8
Well, if you blindly use stats with no context behind them sure. Mitchel has played about a game and a half. maybe a game and 3/4ths. What I am getting at is in his, call it 1.75, games Mitchel has already showed a better long arm that Collins. he clearly has a better short game arm too. He has done this with far less practice reps and far less time under center. Collin's has shown exactly zero meaningful improvement this season in the passing game. In 6.25 real games, Collins is not quite a 52% passer with 890 yards 6 TDs and 4 INTS. that is abysmal any way you slice it. that is not quite a 1800 yard 12 TD 8 INT year. Mitchel is nearly has half of Collin's passing yards in 1.75 games... Mitchel poor outing at Colorado (on the back of barely a week to prepare) was still better than 3 of Collin's 6 games... Mitchel's Utah performance was better than 5 of 6 Collin starts. Then of course there is using your good old eyeballs. If you cannot see that Mitchel is the more polished, more poised QB in the pocket and appears to have better command of the offense and reads on the defense... man, I dunno what to tell you. We saw against Utah the read option leash being loosened for Mitchel and he made a few really good read and keeps that let him run. While Mitchel isn't close to as dynamic as Collins while running... I'd wager Mitchel could be more effective as a runner than Collins if he continues his improvements in passing... because with Mitchel they will actually have to respect a passing game. Because with Mitchel not every single play is going to be a QB keeper! Just saying stats don't tell the whole story. I actually think Mitchell might be a better short term answer, but am not writing off Collins in the least, he had shown improvement through the Stanford game, regressed the last 2 games though, I kind of expected that just like I expect Mitchell not to have 7 straight games of improvement. Based on the first 2 games of each, I'd put Mitchell as the better QB of the 2 for now, with Collins having the bigger potential upside. I'm one of the guys who could never understand why Ian Shields wasn't THE GUY for most of his OSU career. He wasn't as fast or flashy as the alternatives, but I felt the O clicked better with him in. I've yet to see sustained offense with either of these kids, but both show some promise in different ways. Ian had brittle ankles, or was it his actual feet? He's a legend anyway, won at Autzen!
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Post by nabeav on Nov 4, 2015 22:33:04 GMT -8
I don't feel like much of anything that I've seen this season leads me to believe that the staff particularly cares how many wins the team gets this year. That would be why Collins started the season - he had more upside. That'd be why they abandoned using the pass catching tight ends, arguably the most potent offensive weapon at their disposal. Why Deltron Sands rocketed up the depth chart. Why they went 3-4 without necessarily having the appropriate personnel. I understand why that decision was made, and in time it may prove to be the right choice. As a fan, it's tough to see this season basically treated as a redshirt year for the entire program. With season ticket sales depressed and fewer single game ticket prices up to help defray the salaries of the new staff, I just hope that fans stick around to see the finished product.
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 5, 2015 10:22:13 GMT -8
I don't feel like much of anything that I've seen this season leads me to believe that the staff particularly cares how many wins the team gets this year. That would be why Collins started the season - he had more upside. That'd be why they abandoned using the pass catching tight ends, arguably the most potent offensive weapon at their disposal. Why Deltron Sands rocketed up the depth chart. Why they went 3-4 without necessarily having the appropriate personnel. I understand why that decision was made, and in time it may prove to be the right choice. As a fan, it's tough to see this season basically treated as a redshirt year for the entire program. With season ticket sales depressed and fewer single game ticket prices up to help defray the salaries of the new staff, I just hope that fans stick around to see the finished product. Well, if Riley was the head coach, we may see the same record and even less hope for the future. You can have your cake and eat it too this year.
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Post by nabeav on Nov 5, 2015 10:48:01 GMT -8
All I'm saying is that I haven't seen anything yet to convince me that there is hope for the future, regardless of who the coach is. Am I enjoying this season? Darn right I am, because six times this year I get to tailgate with my friends and family, just like I do every other year, regardless of the outcome of the games. I get that there's optimism because we have new leadership, but the bottom line is that we went to 8 bowl games in 11 years under Riley. I don't think things were as bad as people seem to remember them. We were within one game of the Rose Bowl twice. No, we never got there. Cal hasn't been there since 1959. Indiana since 1968. Minnesota 1962. Iowa 1991. Arizona has never been. Purdue and Northwestern have only been twice in their history. It's a lot more difficult to get there than I think a lot of people are willing to admit.
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Post by beavineugene on Nov 5, 2015 11:00:24 GMT -8
All I'm saying is that I haven't seen anything yet to convince me that there is hope for the future, regardless of who the coach is. Am I enjoying this season? Darn right I am, because six times this year I get to tailgate with my friends and family, just like I do every other year, regardless of the outcome of the games. I get that there's optimism because we have new leadership, but the bottom line is that we went to 8 bowl games in 11 years under Riley. I don't think things were as bad as people seem to remember them. We were within one game of the Rose Bowl twice. No, we never got there. Cal hasn't been there since 1959. Indiana since 1968. Minnesota 1962. Iowa 1991. Arizona has never been. Purdue and Northwestern have only been twice in their history. It's a lot more difficult to get there than I think a lot of people are willing to admit. Things were "good" not great from 2003-2009. From 2010-2014 OSU was not a good team, with the exception of the 2012 team. Riley's last two years at OSU were bad, horribly bad. The recruiting, the in game management, play calling, etc. All bad. And if that wasn't enough, just look at what he's done to Nebraska. Riley did well at OSU, when UW, WSU, UA, UCLA, and Stanford were HORRIBLE teams. Once they started winning, he could not compete with them.
And if you haven't seen anything to convince you that there is hope for the future, I am sorry. It's not obvious on the field in regards to Wins, but you can put a good chunk of that blame on Riley.
This team with Andersen is 2-6 with hope for the future This team with Riley is 1-7 or 2-6 with no hope for the future.
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 5, 2015 12:15:35 GMT -8
All I'm saying is that I haven't seen anything yet to convince me that there is hope for the future, regardless of who the coach is. Am I enjoying this season? Darn right I am, because six times this year I get to tailgate with my friends and family, just like I do every other year, regardless of the outcome of the games. I get that there's optimism because we have new leadership, but the bottom line is that we went to 8 bowl games in 11 years under Riley. I don't think things were as bad as people seem to remember them. We were within one game of the Rose Bowl twice. No, we never got there. Cal hasn't been there since 1959. Indiana since 1968. Minnesota 1962. Iowa 1991. Arizona has never been. Purdue and Northwestern have only been twice in their history. It's a lot more difficult to get there than I think a lot of people are willing to admit. You've seen nothing that will convince you that there is hope for the future? WOW
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