|
Post by nabeav on Oct 22, 2015 15:09:54 GMT -8
With all the talk about how difficult the transition from one coach to the next can be, I decided to look at how the other Pac-12 teams have done in the first season after their last coaching transition that didn't involve the promotion of an existing coach. So for example, I didn't look at Harbaugh to Shaw or Pete Carroll to Kiffin to Orgeron to Sark as they are all essentially from the same staff and philosophy. Oregon hasn't really hired from without since Rich Brooks, so I didn't even bother with them.
The results are pretty mixed, but a majority saw improvement in the first season. Sonny Dykes appears to have Cal pointed in the right direction after a rough first season, so that's the glass half full option. Utah and Arizona both transitioned to the spread/read option in the transitions below, and saw marked improvement right out of the gate. That's the glass half empty option for Beaver fans. I wouldn't draw any conclusions from these results, or from the start for the team thus far this year, but I don't think that you can just throw away this year as "it's a big change, this is to be expected" either.
Arizona: Mike Stoops last season: 4-8 Rich Rodriguez year one: 8-5
Arizona State: Dennis Erickson last season: 6-7 Todd Graham year one: 8-5
Cal: Jeff Tedford last season: 3-9 Sonny Dykes year one: 1-11
Colorado: Jon Embree last season: 1-11 Mike McIntyre year one: 4-8
Stanford: Walt Harris last season: 1-11 Jim Harbaugh year one: 4-8
Southern Cal: Paul Hackett last season: 5-7 Pete Carroll year one: 6-6
UCLA: Rick Neuheisel last season: 6-8 Jim Mora year one: 9-5
Utah: Ron McBride last season: 5-6 Urban Meyer year one: 10-2
Washington: Steve Sarkisian last season: 9-4 Chris Peterson year one: 8-6
Washington State: Paul Wulff last season: 4-8 Mike Leach year one: 3-9
|
|
|
Post by beaverintheberg on Oct 22, 2015 15:26:38 GMT -8
This season looked rough coming in to it. The results so far shouldn't be a surprise.
Those talking about a winning season were just not being realistic.
Go Beavs -- Next year can't come too soon!!
|
|
|
Post by vhalum92 on Oct 22, 2015 15:57:36 GMT -8
I agree... we shouldn't just throw this year away and I've never heard GA even hint at that. But yes, the fans have/are.
My one rebuttal is until you look at strength of schedule, depth chart and the recruiting classes maybe 2 years leading up to the coaching change. But point taken.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 17:45:05 GMT -8
I wonder how many of those teams had 2 returning starters on defense and a true freshman at QB? I would be surprised if any of those coaches had a more difficult transition than Andersen coming into OSU.
|
|
|
Post by mountainbeaver on Oct 22, 2015 17:53:54 GMT -8
Good perspective. Most of us have our orange glasses on, but reality is that we have completely different systems on both sides, a true freshman qb, and tons of inexperience on defense coming in-not exactly a recipe for success. I'm going to be really interested to see where we are in year 3.
|
|
|
Post by nexus73 on Oct 22, 2015 18:04:06 GMT -8
I wonder how many of those teams had 2 returning starters on defense and a true freshman at QB? I would be surprised if any of those coaches had a more difficult transition than Andersen coming into OSU. Bingo! Hammer hit nail on head.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2015 11:41:48 GMT -8
What do you knowledgeable football fans think should be done to help the QB's improve their effectiveness? It seems to me their passing is in dire need of improvement. I think our running game is serviceable but still needs tweaking to help the runners find the open pathways to run in and to cease running backward to try and gain a small advance and escape a tackle. That assumes the offensive line will also be able to make the holes and pathways needed. I think they are doing fair in that regard already. I also believe our secondary defense is quite weak and susceptible to arm tackling, fouling, and being out of position a lot of the time. I'm sorry to be so sad but in general it isn't a surprise to see the results after a total retooling in both coaching staff and players. I did hope and expected we would beat Colorado but alas it wasn't to be. But no matter what, I am and will always be a Beaver Believer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 8:43:08 GMT -8
With all the talk about how difficult the transition from one coach to the next can be, I decided to look at how the other Pac-12 teams have done in the first season after their last coaching transition that didn't involve the promotion of an existing coach. So for example, I didn't look at Harbaugh to Shaw or Pete Carroll to Kiffin to Orgeron to Sark as they are all essentially from the same staff and philosophy. Oregon hasn't really hired from without since Rich Brooks, so I didn't even bother with them. The results are pretty mixed, but a majority saw improvement in the first season. Sonny Dykes appears to have Cal pointed in the right direction after a rough first season, so that's the glass half full option. Utah and Arizona both transitioned to the spread/read option in the transitions below, and saw marked improvement right out of the gate. That's the glass half empty option for Beaver fans. I wouldn't draw any conclusions from these results, or from the start for the team thus far this year, but I don't think that you can just throw away this year as "it's a big change, this is to be expected" either. Arizona: Mike Stoops last season: 4-8 Rich Rodriguez year one: 8-5 Arizona State: Dennis Erickson last season: 6-7 Todd Graham year one: 8-5 Cal: Jeff Tedford last season: 3-9 Sonny Dykes year one: 1-11 Colorado: Jon Embree last season: 1-11 Mike McIntyre year one: 4-8 Stanford: Walt Harris last season: 1-11 Jim Harbaugh year one: 4-8 Southern Cal: Paul Hackett last season: 5-7 Pete Carroll year one: 6-6 UCLA: Rick Neuheisel last season: 6-8 Jim Mora year one: 9-5 Utah: Ron McBride last season: 5-6 Urban Meyer year one: 10-2 Washington: Steve Sarkisian last season: 9-4 Chris Peterson year one: 8-6 Washington State: Paul Wulff last season: 4-8 Mike Leach year one: 3-9 Such teams as AZ, ASU, Cal, UCLA, and USC were in free fall and were playing well below their talent level prior to transition, as was Washington prior to Sarkisian (don't know enough about Stanford or Colo to include them or exclude them). That said, some had apparent systemic issues that made transition surprisingly difficult. Example, USC. Carroll only improved by one win. Cal, 1-11 in Dykes first year, although Cal was playing with, and is still playing with, guys we recruited and couldn't get. Dykes inherited better talent than Tedford had, although Tedford had a much quicker transition. As you said, hard to draw any conclusions from this.
|
|
|
Post by ag87 on Oct 27, 2015 14:05:54 GMT -8
my first post here - another way to look at this is assume Mike Riley was the HC this year and retires in four weeks. As a wild guess, DelRio is the starting quarterback, the team plays very poorly and wins two or three games. Gary Andersen leaves Wisconsin unexpectedly after three seasons and becomes the new head coach at OSU. Andersen's 2016 team wins how many games?
As an analogy, the team last year was a bus on a downslope towards a cliff and without breaks. The driver jumps out and a new driver is brought in to negotiate that plummet. The Stanford and Colorado examples are from after the bus goes off the cliff. Cal is similar to ours. Arizona, ASU, UCLA and USC are like ours except with a fair amount of 18 and 19 year olds who were four star recruits.
|
|
|
Post by spudbeaver on Oct 27, 2015 15:16:48 GMT -8
I wonder how many of those teams had 2 returning starters on defense and a true freshman at QB? I would be surprised if any of those coaches had a more difficult transition than Andersen coming into OSU. The True Freshman QB thing is getting tired as an excuse, as it's our own doing that it's that way. Del Rio was told to hit the bricks, Vanderveen to TE. Our coaches made that decision, not Coach Riley.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 15:24:58 GMT -8
I wonder how many of those teams had 2 returning starters on defense and a true freshman at QB? I would be surprised if any of those coaches had a more difficult transition than Andersen coming into OSU. The True Freshman QB thing is getting tired as an excuse, as it's our own doing that it's that way. Del Rio was told to hit the bricks, Vanderveen to TE. Our coaches made that decision, not Coach Riley. You don't know what Del Rio was told, but believe what you want. Vanderveen? Did you see his pass in the Spring game?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 10:00:20 GMT -8
The True Freshman QB thing is getting tired as an excuse, as it's our own doing that it's that way. Del Rio was told to hit the bricks, Vanderveen to TE. Our coaches made that decision, not Coach Riley. You don't know what Del Rio was told, but believe what you want. Vanderveen? Did you see his pass in the Spring game? And how do you know that Del Rio/Vanderveen would have been any better than the freshman this year? How many live snaps did they have during Riley's tenure?
Bottom line is Andersen inherited a team of QBs with almost zero live experience. Freshman or not that is a huge disadvantage for a coaching staff.
|
|
|
Post by spudbeaver on Oct 28, 2015 10:38:41 GMT -8
You don't know what Del Rio was told, but believe what you want. Vanderveen? Did you see his pass in the Spring game? And how do you know that Del Rio/Vanderveen would have been any better than the freshman this year? How many live snaps did they have during Riley's tenure?
Bottom line is Andersen inherited a team of QBs with almost zero live experience. Freshman or not that is a huge disadvantage for a coaching staff.
I do know! I'm Jack Del Rio and in between coaching the the Raiders I like to get knowledgable fans input like yours!
|
|
|
Post by nabeav on Oct 28, 2015 10:39:13 GMT -8
Bottom line is Andersen inherited a team of QBs with almost zero live experience. Freshman or not that is a huge disadvantage for a coaching staff.
It's a disadvantage yes, but these things happen when you have the all time leading passer in Pac-12 history as your quarterback. Any QB good enough to start is going to transfer or sign somewhere else, knowing that there's already a guy in place for the next 2 or 3 years. I don't think you can blame the previous coaching staff for not recruiting an elite QB to ride the pine behind Mannion for two or three years. Last time this happened, we had to find a QB to replace the two-headed monster of Canfield and Moevao. The QBs tasked with taking over the helm were Ryan Katz and a guy who'd already been kicked out of one university - Peter Lalich. Lalich ended up getting himself kicked out of his second school, and we endured a shaky 5-7 season, while an elite QB by the name of Sean Mannion redshirted. The next year, it took all of half a game for Katz to play himself out of a job, and Mannion went on to have a fairly decent Freshman season, despite having very little help from a run-game that included a crummy run game that was unfortunately left without an elite running back when Quizz went pro. The reason for the lack of depth behind him was that Quizz had been another long-time starter that probably hindered recruiting. Moving this timeline forward, we'll be going into next season without elite players at really any position, which should lure some good players to Corvallis with the promise of playing time. We'll see if that holds true.
|
|
zzufrevaeb
Sophomore
Not beaverfuzz
hi
Posts: 1,502
|
Post by zzufrevaeb on Oct 28, 2015 11:36:39 GMT -8
And how do you know that Del Rio/Vanderveen would have been any better than the freshman this year? How many live snaps did they have during Riley's tenure?
Bottom line is Andersen inherited a team of QBs with almost zero live experience. Freshman or not that is a huge disadvantage for a coaching staff.
I do know! I'm Jack Del Rio and in between coaching the the Raiders I like to get knowledgable fans input like yours! Funniest thing I've read all day long. haha
|
|