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Post by nforkbeav on May 11, 2018 20:37:20 GMT -8
Saying MR wasn't a great recruiter along with followup sentence, USC always got better talent, makes me laugh. For sake of discussion, lets just suppose the NCAA made a new rule prohibiting all coaches from any recruiting activity and contact with high school players anymore. Zero, zilch, nada, no recruiting period from this date forwards. Starting with the 2019 recruiting class it is entirely up to high school prospects and their parents to seek out and decide which college they'd like to play for, without actually visiting with, or talking to any coaches at those schools. Under this new of recruiting, where coaches are entirely removed from recruiting and therefore can not be given credit for being either good or bad recruiters, where do you see OSU's national recruiting class ranking in comparison to USC's or the rest of the P12 for that matter? I think that the comment about SC wasn't meant to be an indictment of the talent that Riley was able to bring in, but intended to illustrate that it isn't about the talent you start with, it's the coaching they receive. When PC left, that talent development left SC. You could be right regarding what he meant and giving props for developing talent. What he said however was, Mike Riley was not a great recruiter. Without some serious cash in paper sacks, Meyer, Saban, Sweeney, etc... all the so called great recruiters, wouldn't have done any better.
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Post by ee1990 on May 13, 2018 19:41:17 GMT -8
Look at how many silk purses turned into sow's ears. MR wasn't the Great Recruiter as much as he was the Good Developer of QB's. USC always got better talent than we did but once their staff began to wander off to greener pastures after Pete Carroll had got the Trojans into National Championship waters, their performance as a team fell off. Even the best seeds need fertile soil and constant tending.
Saying MR wasn't a great recruiter along with followup sentence, USC always got better talent, makes me laugh. For sake of discussion, lets just suppose the NCAA made a new rule prohibiting all coaches from any recruiting activity and contact with high school players anymore. Zero, zilch, nada, no recruiting period from this date forwards. Starting with the 2019 recruiting class it is entirely up to high school prospects and their parents to seek out and decide which college they'd like to play for, without actually visiting with, or talking to any coaches at those schools. Under this new of recruiting, where coaches are entirely removed from recruiting and therefore can not be given credit for being either good or bad recruiters, where do you see OSU's national recruiting class ranking in comparison to USC's or the rest of the P12 for that matter? The answer is 11th, but that's more than little bit of an unfair way to look at it. If he were such a great recruiter, why didn't he land top 15 classes at Nebraska? In fact, his recruiting to Lincoln was no different than it had been for years and years. You can be an excellent recruiter to OS or Alabama, and merely average somewhere else. That's life. Fortunately he's back home.
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Post by biggieorange on May 14, 2018 8:19:32 GMT -8
Saying MR wasn't a great recruiter along with followup sentence, USC always got better talent, makes me laugh. For sake of discussion, lets just suppose the NCAA made a new rule prohibiting all coaches from any recruiting activity and contact with high school players anymore. Zero, zilch, nada, no recruiting period from this date forwards. Starting with the 2019 recruiting class it is entirely up to high school prospects and their parents to seek out and decide which college they'd like to play for, without actually visiting with, or talking to any coaches at those schools. Under this new of recruiting, where coaches are entirely removed from recruiting and therefore can not be given credit for being either good or bad recruiters, where do you see OSU's national recruiting class ranking in comparison to USC's or the rest of the P12 for that matter? The answer is 11th, but that's more than little bit of an unfair way to look at it. If he were such a great recruiter, why didn't he land top 15 classes at Nebraska? In fact, his recruiting to Lincoln was no different than it had been for years and years. You can be an excellent recruiter to OS or Alabama, and merely average somewhere else. That's life. Fortunately he's back home. I agree, I don't think CFB recruiting is a science, but more of an art. Some guys are Monet and you could hang his work anywhere in your house, but some are Jackson Pollock and have their specific fit. I really think Riley has his fit with finding Offensive guys that can run a highly complex system. He knows what sort of traits will ultimately work out, if they can learn the scheme and translate it to the field. Where I feel like Riley recruiting fell down is that he wasn't able to quickly get the talent onto the field, ie even when they had young and very talented players, it was tough to get those guys any snaps because their was such a steep learning curve. So this will lead to a severe lack of depth, which IMHO is what got him fired at Nebraska.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 14, 2018 8:31:14 GMT -8
Didn't Riley have the makings of a top 5-10 class going on at Nebraska this season until the firing talk began. They still salvaged a top 25 class, it probably wasn't all due to his replacement coming in.
Recruiting or development, whatever it was it worked. Thing is, you dont just pull kids out of high school like Kenny or the Rodgers brothers and "develop" them into highly productive players in a few weeks... the recruitment aspect of it has to come to play from time to time. It's probably a mix of both.
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Post by obf on May 14, 2018 8:39:09 GMT -8
In regards to the news that the 4* QB choose BSU over OSU (and several other Pac-12 schools, BTW), that is disappointing, for sure, but I find it more interesting that he choose BSU rather than him not choosing OSU. Looking at his offer list he had several suitors from every P5 conference, and even interest from the big boys like Bama and such. I am not sure what it means, or if it means anything, other than it's a nice coup for BSU, and not OSU "missing" like the article above wants to make is sound... It sure would be nice to read a few stories about The beavs getting a coup or two, however Go Beavs! Get it done Coach Smith!
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Post by atownbeaver on May 14, 2018 10:01:00 GMT -8
In regards to the news that the 4* QB choose BSU over OSU (and several other Pac-12 schools, BTW), that is disappointing, for sure, but I find it more interesting that he choose BSU rather than him not choosing OSU. Looking at his offer list he had several suitors from every P5 conference, and even interest from the big boys like Bama and such. I am not sure what it means, or if it means anything, other than it's a nice coup for BSU, and not OSU "missing" like the article above wants to make is sound... It sure would be nice to read a few stories about The beavs getting a coup or two, however Go Beavs! Get it done Coach Smith! My gut reading is he is a questionable qualifier and went to a school most likely to get him in. Boise State is not the Boise State of 5 years ago. They are not the Oklahoma giant killers anymore. They are a good MWC team, for sure. but they are not a P5 team, and anymore a few other MWC teams really push them. So when you have the offer sheet this kid has, I am sorry, BSU doesn't really make a ton of sense. Unless the kid REALLY loves Boise (it is a nice town...)
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Post by orangeattack on May 14, 2018 12:40:40 GMT -8
In regards to the news that the 4* QB choose BSU over OSU (and several other Pac-12 schools, BTW), that is disappointing, for sure, but I find it more interesting that he choose BSU rather than him not choosing OSU. Looking at his offer list he had several suitors from every P5 conference, and even interest from the big boys like Bama and such. I am not sure what it means, or if it means anything, other than it's a nice coup for BSU, and not OSU "missing" like the article above wants to make is sound... It sure would be nice to read a few stories about The beavs getting a coup or two, however Go Beavs! Get it done Coach Smith! My gut reading is he is a questionable qualifier and went to a school most likely to get him in. Boise State is not the Boise State of 5 years ago. They are not the Oklahoma giant killers anymore. They are a good MWC team, for sure. but they are not a P5 team, and anymore a few other MWC teams really push them. So when you have the offer sheet this kid has, I am sorry, BSU doesn't really make a ton of sense. Unless the kid REALLY loves Boise (it is a nice town...) Agreed.. something is rotten in Denmark.
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Post by ee1990 on May 14, 2018 16:06:50 GMT -8
In regards to the news that the 4* QB choose BSU over OSU (and several other Pac-12 schools, BTW), that is disappointing, for sure, but I find it more interesting that he choose BSU rather than him not choosing OSU. Looking at his offer list he had several suitors from every P5 conference, and even interest from the big boys like Bama and such. I am not sure what it means, or if it means anything, other than it's a nice coup for BSU, and not OSU "missing" like the article above wants to make is sound... It sure would be nice to read a few stories about The beavs getting a coup or two, however Go Beavs! Get it done Coach Smith! My gut reading is he is a questionable qualifier and went to a school most likely to get him in. Boise State is not the Boise State of 5 years ago. They are not the Oklahoma giant killers anymore. They are a good MWC team, for sure. but they are not a P5 team, and anymore a few other MWC teams really push them. So when you have the offer sheet this kid has, I am sorry, BSU doesn't really make a ton of sense. Unless the kid REALLY loves Boise (it is a nice town...) Instead of going with your gut, why not spend 30 seconds and look at his offer list? You think Dartmouth and Princeton would have offered him if he were a "questionable qualifier"?
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Post by whocares on May 14, 2018 16:43:16 GMT -8
Maybe he just wants to be a truck driver.
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Post by atownbeaver on May 14, 2018 17:07:07 GMT -8
My gut reading is he is a questionable qualifier and went to a school most likely to get him in. Boise State is not the Boise State of 5 years ago. They are not the Oklahoma giant killers anymore. They are a good MWC team, for sure. but they are not a P5 team, and anymore a few other MWC teams really push them. So when you have the offer sheet this kid has, I am sorry, BSU doesn't really make a ton of sense. Unless the kid REALLY loves Boise (it is a nice town...) Instead of going with your gut, why not spend 30 seconds and look at his offer list? You think Dartmouth and Princeton would have offered him if he were a "questionable qualifier"? Yes? Private schools can literally do whatever in the world they want. Their only concern is NCAA requirements. Here are Harvard's earth shattering standards: www.gocrimson.com/information/recruiting/helpfulinfoWhat is that? a 2.3 accumulative GPA on "core classes" it can actually be lower than that in total, and credits that any student graduating from practically any high school in America would have. Harvard's standards are only slightly higher than NCAA minimums. Several schools such as Cal, Wisconsin and others have far stricter entrance requirements for student athletes. Boise State, however, has about as low of academic standards as possibly imaginable for a 4 year university. They require no ACT or SAT score, and do not even have to have a high school diploma... yes, they accept GEDs, and if you have one you are placed on probationary status and must compete a series of college preparatory courses. They have no direct credit requirement either. They even has a special admission panels that can pretty much allow any human with a pulse to gain entrance. The ONLY concern at BSU, is passing NCAA minimums. The reason why BSU was laughed at as a potential Pac-12 (14?) member is their absolutely laughable academics. While I have no illusions OSU is some upper echelon university... we out research the ever living s%#t outta BSU. Many schools on his offer list maintain high standards, even for athletes. Some schools, (ahem, like OSU) only has marginally more than NCAA minimums. others, like BSU, will let at exactly NCAA minimum, and not a fraction of a point higher. So, yes... while I could be wrong and this could be his legitimate pick from ALL those offers, my gut tells me this is his reasoning. I am not going to lie, based on his offer sheet, he picked, possibly, the single worse university on the list.
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Post by orangeattack on May 14, 2018 17:16:13 GMT -8
Instead of going with your gut, why not spend 30 seconds and look at his offer list? You think Dartmouth and Princeton would have offered him if he were a "questionable qualifier"? Yes? Private schools can literally do whatever in the world they want. Their only concern is NCAA requirements. Here are Harvard's earth shattering standards: www.gocrimson.com/information/recruiting/helpfulinfoWhat is that? a 2.3 accumulative GPA on "core classes" it can actually be lower than that in total, and credits that any student graduating from practically any high school in America would have. Harvard's standards are only slightly higher than NCAA minimums. Several schools such as Cal, Wisconsin and others have far stricter entrance requirements for student athletes. Boise State, however, has about as low of academic standards as possibly imaginable for a 4 year university. They require no ACT or SAT score, and do not even have to have a high school diploma... yes, they accept GEDs, and if you have one you are placed on probationary status and must compete a series of college preparatory courses. They have no direct credit requirement either. They even has a special admission panels that can pretty much allow any human with a pulse to gain entrance. The ONLY concern at BSU, is passing NCAA minimums. The reason why BSU was laughed at as a potential Pac-12 (14?) member is their absolutely laughable academics. While I have no illusions OSU is some upper echelon university... we out research the ever living s%#t outta BSU. Many schools on his offer list maintain high standards, even for athletes. Some schools, (ahem, like OSU) only has marginally more than NCAA minimums. others, like BSU, will let at exactly NCAA minimum, and not a fraction of a point higher. So, yes... while I could be wrong and this could be his legitimate pick from ALL those offers, my gut tells me this is his reasoning. I am not going to lie, based on his offer sheet, he picked, possibly, the single worse university on the list. The reality is, for prep kids the entrance requirements are the same for Boise State vs OSU. What is different is the transfer credits that are accepted for Juco kids. I don't know if he's fully qualified or what, and I'm not saying the situation is weird because he chose Boise over Oregon State but rather that he chose Boise over ALLLLL the other options. The coaching staff there is not the generational exception that they were under Pete. That's not an indictment of Harsin but just the reality that coaches like CP just don't come along very often.
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Post by blackbug on May 14, 2018 22:34:34 GMT -8
Instead of going with your gut, why not spend 30 seconds and look at his offer list? You think Dartmouth and Princeton would have offered him if he were a "questionable qualifier"? Yes? Private schools can literally do whatever in the world they want. Their only concern is NCAA requirements. Here are Harvard's earth shattering standards: www.gocrimson.com/information/recruiting/helpfulinfoWhat is that? a 2.3 accumulative GPA on "core classes" it can actually be lower than that in total, and credits that any student graduating from practically any high school in America would have. Harvard's standards are only slightly higher than NCAA minimums. Several schools such as Cal, Wisconsin and others have far stricter entrance requirements for student athletes. Boise State, however, has about as low of academic standards as possibly imaginable for a 4 year university. They require no ACT or SAT score, and do not even have to have a high school diploma... yes, they accept GEDs, and if you have one you are placed on probationary status and must compete a series of college preparatory courses. They have no direct credit requirement either. They even has a special admission panels that can pretty much allow any human with a pulse to gain entrance. The ONLY concern at BSU, is passing NCAA minimums. The reason why BSU was laughed at as a potential Pac-12 (14?) member is their absolutely laughable academics. While I have no illusions OSU is some upper echelon university... we out research the ever living s%#t outta BSU. Many schools on his offer list maintain high standards, even for athletes. Some schools, (ahem, like OSU) only has marginally more than NCAA minimums. others, like BSU, will let at exactly NCAA minimum, and not a fraction of a point higher. So, yes... while I could be wrong and this could be his legitimate pick from ALL those offers, my gut tells me this is his reasoning. I am not going to lie, based on his offer sheet, he picked, possibly, the single worse university on the list. Heard Bachmeier in an interview. He comes across very intelligent. Based on the information in interviews his academics are good. This is not the first time Boise State beat us out on a quarterback. Their starter last year chose them over us and others and was also a 4 star. They typically have at least 5 recruits we wanted per year. They already beat out us and many programs on 2 four stars. Casey Kline is the second. Harsin is not as good as coach as Peterson, but he is still good. The recruiting has not tailed off at all since Peterson left and may have even improved depending on how you compare. For whatever reason Harsin's staff is winning their fair of recruiting battles despite the winning falling off a bit. 4 stars picking BSU is relatively common. Now if their class started being mostly 4 stars, it would make one wonder.
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Post by obf on May 15, 2018 9:50:11 GMT -8
One of the takeaways from all this for me is, This is what it looks like when your school ACTUALLY TAKES ADVANTAGE of a period of great success... As much as I want to attribute BSU's success with recruits to kids who aren't smart enough to get into OSU As much as I want to attribute the *ucks success with recruits to underhanded and cheating recruiting methods I also have to look in the proverbial mirror and realize that when THEY had periods of great success THEY doubled down on football and are reaping the rewards. Sure BSU's success on the field has fallen off, but they are still seen as the little group of five school who could, because the invested in that, they followed up their success with more success and the reputation has stuck. Same with the dreaded *ucks. Part of it was ESPN pusing BSU, part of it was getting attention with costume changes and grandiose buildings, part I am sure is luck and timing, but there can be no doubt that both BSU and u of o took active, concerted effort in getting their football teams into the mind and eye of the public as successful and therefore in the minds of the 10 year olds that are now turning 18 and looking for a school to go to. When WE had our one moment of glory after 30 years in the desert we doubled down on.... Fiscal responsibility? Other sports? Everything OTHER than football? Our zenith was only 1 year, but we had a solid decade where we COULD have cemented our status as a legit top 3rd of the Pac-12 team... For whatever reason we failed to do it (Some NOT ALL is on the AD office), and now we are pretty much starting over Sigh, Lets go Coach Smith, Make OSU Great Again!
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Post by orangeattack on May 15, 2018 10:21:41 GMT -8
Yes? Private schools can literally do whatever in the world they want. Their only concern is NCAA requirements. Here are Harvard's earth shattering standards: www.gocrimson.com/information/recruiting/helpfulinfoWhat is that? a 2.3 accumulative GPA on "core classes" it can actually be lower than that in total, and credits that any student graduating from practically any high school in America would have. Harvard's standards are only slightly higher than NCAA minimums. Several schools such as Cal, Wisconsin and others have far stricter entrance requirements for student athletes. Boise State, however, has about as low of academic standards as possibly imaginable for a 4 year university. They require no ACT or SAT score, and do not even have to have a high school diploma... yes, they accept GEDs, and if you have one you are placed on probationary status and must compete a series of college preparatory courses. They have no direct credit requirement either. They even has a special admission panels that can pretty much allow any human with a pulse to gain entrance. The ONLY concern at BSU, is passing NCAA minimums. The reason why BSU was laughed at as a potential Pac-12 (14?) member is their absolutely laughable academics. While I have no illusions OSU is some upper echelon university... we out research the ever living s%#t outta BSU. Many schools on his offer list maintain high standards, even for athletes. Some schools, (ahem, like OSU) only has marginally more than NCAA minimums. others, like BSU, will let at exactly NCAA minimum, and not a fraction of a point higher. So, yes... while I could be wrong and this could be his legitimate pick from ALL those offers, my gut tells me this is his reasoning. I am not going to lie, based on his offer sheet, he picked, possibly, the single worse university on the list. Heard Bachmeier in an interview. He comes across very intelligent. Based on the information in interviews his academics are good. This is not the first time Boise State beat us out on a quarterback. Their starter last year chose them over us and others and was also a 4 star. They typically have at least 5 recruits we wanted per year. They already beat out us and many programs on 2 four stars. Casey Kline is the second. Harsin is not as good as coach as Peterson, but he is still good. The recruiting has not tailed off at all since Peterson left and may have even improved depending on how you compare. For whatever reason Harsin's staff is winning their fair of recruiting battles despite the winning falling off a bit. 4 stars picking BSU is relatively common. Now if their class started being mostly 4 stars, it would make one wonder. Again, it's not choosing Boise State over Oregon State that makes me wonder. It's Boise State over all the other offers. Cal Georgia Ole Miss Tennessee Boise State Which one of these things is not like the other? 4-stars picking Boise State is not that unusual, I agree - but there are about 400 prep kids that are 4-stars per year. There are 50-ish or less 5-star preps (the data I found says that there were only 33 in 2013). So what I am saying is that you're talking about the top 450 players in the country, and yeah BSU does sometimes sign some of those fringe 4-star athletes. But the top half of the 4-star kids are really rare, sought after players. There are 65 P5 schools that are each signing on average 20 kids per year, which means there are 1300 spots open in conferences with better exposure and opportunity than Boise provides. Competition for the top 250 is FIERCE. So yeah, it's really surprising, to the point of it being a legitimate question as to whether something else is at play, for Boise to get a commitment from a top 250 prospect over traditional powers when they do not have a generational coaching staff in place.
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Post by obf on May 15, 2018 10:40:00 GMT -8
So yeah, it's really surprising, to the point of it being a legitimate question as to whether something else is at play, for Boise to get a commitment from a top 250 prospect over traditional powers when they do not have a generational coaching staff in place. I think it has more to do with the power of marketing, branding and reputation than it does impugning the academics and intelligence of a high school student. For whatever reason Boise State has been identified (I would say they specifically positioned themselves) as the Mid Major school that is the David to Alabama and Ohio States Goliath. That brand, that reputation holds a GREAT amount of weight, and is going to stick in the minds of the public much longer than actual reality (BSU has only been middling lately, UCF and others SHOULD be the mid major darlings). So is Hank swayed by the excitement of being on a team that is fighting against "the man", being on a team that is successful year in and year out, being on a team that gets national attention even though it is a lowly G5 school? Or is he just too dumb to get into the other schools that have offered him (Like Georgia wouldn't get him into school???)?
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