|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 17, 2018 11:14:20 GMT -8
It’ll be curious to see how many kids have their football careers at ASU Hermanated between now and next season.
|
|
|
Post by atownbeaver on Apr 17, 2018 12:02:54 GMT -8
You're not watching Saban too closely if you think he is stoic. He is screaming more often than not on the sideline.
There are many different styles that work. Meyer and Peterson are more stoic, while the 3 that I mentioned are more fiery. I would also add Harbaugh to that fiery group. As long as the style works with the players, I don't care how the coach acts within reason. (Mike Stoops being the outlier)
All of those guys are basically psychopaths. You have to be to be in that business. Urban might look stoic - but he's completely nuts. Kind of like anyone who would fight in the UFC is wired a lot differently than the majority of the population. Speaking of Harbaugh. One of his players (now ex-players) sent some vague threatening tweets to him last night. That's probably not good. deadspin.com/michigan-player-tagged-jim-harbaugh-in-series-of-vaguel-1825323391Yeesh. that ain't gonna help that player's case of picking up a new place to play or somehow get unsuspended...
|
|
|
Post by spudbeaver on Apr 17, 2018 12:12:25 GMT -8
I would place Dabo in a different, third category - he's a magnetic personality, Pete Carroll type - leads with an infectious, kind of manic energy. Saban isn't a big screamer, he's just a hardass who will hardly ever crack a smile. He stands there glaring, ruthless and pitiless, demanding perfection at all times. He's the reincarnate of Bear Bryant, only meaner. I don't know how many different categories we are looking at, per se... but the point was just "I'd much rather have this reserved guy with Coach Smith than the screamer/disciplinarian type." I think the thing that is sort of subtly inferred here is that after Coach Riley there were a lot of us who were high on the idea of a guy who WAS more of a screamer, who wanted a team full of weight room junkies who played hard from whistle to whistle... and here comes Coach Smith a little under the radar, with a more reserved, analytical but positive energy. Some of us thought he wasn't a consideration. At one point even I was saying I didn't want Coach Smith to take the job at Oregon State because from my prism, he was going to be a green coach trying to assemble a staff without as many resources as his relative peers. I think if I went back into my post history I said something along the lines of this job not being for the faint of heart. But I was wrong, the staff that Smith has assembled is really nothing short of brilliant. There are so many bright minds on this staff and I don't care what you say about Riley, he's very bright. That was an absolute coup. And Michalczik was a stellar hire that is going to make a big impact relatively early. I think even atown was a little lukewarm on CJS for a minute early on. So for a lot of us, these "man, I'm really liking what CJS is doing with X" and then comparing it against another hypothetical is kind of a series of mea culpas. At least that's how I feel, I'm overwhelmed with pleasant surprises by Smith. He's killing it, so far. Everything I see is above even my most far-fetched of hopes. He's great. And since I've fully threadjacked, how great would be for the Story of Mike Riley to have him come back and coach a former player that he found, brought to a D-1 school, had a chance to mentor, and then had a chance to help him field one of the best Oregon State teams in school history? If these guys can recruit a legitimate pro set star and coach him up like we've seen so many times from Riley in his career - it's possible. Not this year but year two or three, it could be a surprise year like 2010 To me this all premature praise. He has not even coached a spring game. It makes me roll my eyes. The individual parts of the previous staff was not bad. They had all had success in college football. The combination of the staff with the leader was bad. Every single one of the previous coaches will undoubtedly be successful again. I am not defending the previous staff nor bagging the current, just trying to describe the exaggerated comparisons about both. I like the staff that Smith put together, but let's look at it realistically. Michalzick was soon to be unemployed when we hired him so he was definitely looking for a new landing place. His experience and success is undeniable, but I don't see him as a hot commodity that we won the bidding war for. In college football the perceived desirability of a coach is usually about timing and demand (you rarely command demand if you are unemployed or soon to be). I don't want to come off negative towards Michalzick, just trying to present both sides. I personally think he is average in communication from the sound bites I have heard. Riley is another unemployed coach we hired. He comes with a lot experience and knowledge, this also includes some baggage that is well known because he has coached a while. He was not going to get another head coaching job, so we didn't necessarily steal someone who is overqualified. All the other coaches either received a promotion, increase in pay, or were unemployed. Suiaunoa is the one who took a demotion to be one of our coaches, but because he was at Hawaii his pay increased. I guess one of my points is not a single one of the coaches were considered nationally as can't miss and flashy, but almost all agree that they are all knowledgeable, solid coaches. This actually is probably a good thing. I am not ready to say they are doing a good job. Overall the metrics I have seen thus far has been average. The biggest positive measurement I have seen is 3 reports of improved organization, effort, or team happiness. This is a very positive and big thing. Negatives: In 6 months the turnover has been 10 players leaving before completing eligibility. This number may actually be good, depending on what happens in the next 6 months. 7 of these were scholarship players. I have not been happy with the overall recruiting thus far. There is plenty of time for this to change. I don't appreciate comments indicating that we obtained pretty much all the recruits we targeted, but the consensus is that our recruiting is below average for P5. This type of comment makes me wonder what the long term plan is in competing in recruiting. I have read 2 articles bemoaning the lack of depth in DL, but there was hardly any effort to shore this up in the recruiting. The DL was senior heavy last year, the depth problem caught no one by surprise. Right now it is questionable whether there will be enough depth for the first string. The previous staff may very well have lied about heights and weights, but since I cannot confirm this for sure the only way for me to evaluate this is based on what has been given. The first round of measurements are mostly disappointing under the new training staff. I put very little stock in this, but it data for me to add to the picture. I am not trying to be pessimistic, nor go against the consensus. I am just trying to paint the picture I see. Wow...
|
|
|
Post by blackbug on Apr 17, 2018 18:35:06 GMT -8
To me this all premature praise. He has not even coached a spring game. It makes me roll my eyes. The individual parts of the previous staff was not bad. They had all had success in college football. The combination of the staff with the leader was bad. Every single one of the previous coaches will undoubtedly be successful again. I am not defending the previous staff nor bagging the current, just trying to describe the exaggerated comparisons about both. I like the staff that Smith put together, but let's look at it realistically. Michalzick was soon to be unemployed when we hired him so he was definitely looking for a new landing place. His experience and success is undeniable, but I don't see him as a hot commodity that we won the bidding war for. In college football the perceived desirability of a coach is usually about timing and demand (you rarely command demand if you are unemployed or soon to be). I don't want to come off negative towards Michalzick, just trying to present both sides. I personally think he is average in communication from the sound bites I have heard. Riley is another unemployed coach we hired. He comes with a lot experience and knowledge, this also includes some baggage that is well known because he has coached a while. He was not going to get another head coaching job, so we didn't necessarily steal someone who is overqualified. All the other coaches either received a promotion, increase in pay, or were unemployed. Suiaunoa is the one who took a demotion to be one of our coaches, but because he was at Hawaii his pay increased. I guess one of my points is not a single one of the coaches were considered nationally as can't miss and flashy, but almost all agree that they are all knowledgeable, solid coaches. This actually is probably a good thing. I am not ready to say they are doing a good job. Overall the metrics I have seen thus far has been average. The biggest positive measurement I have seen is 3 reports of improved organization, effort, or team happiness. This is a very positive and big thing. Negatives: In 6 months the turnover has been 10 players leaving before completing eligibility. This number may actually be good, depending on what happens in the next 6 months. 7 of these were scholarship players. I have not been happy with the overall recruiting thus far. There is plenty of time for this to change. I don't appreciate comments indicating that we obtained pretty much all the recruits we targeted, but the consensus is that our recruiting is below average for P5. This type of comment makes me wonder what the long term plan is in competing in recruiting. I have read 2 articles bemoaning the lack of depth in DL, but there was hardly any effort to shore this up in the recruiting. The DL was senior heavy last year, the depth problem caught no one by surprise. Right now it is questionable whether there will be enough depth for the first string. The previous staff may very well have lied about heights and weights, but since I cannot confirm this for sure the only way for me to evaluate this is based on what has been given. The first round of measurements are mostly disappointing under the new training staff. I put very little stock in this, but it data for me to add to the picture. I am not trying to be pessimistic, nor go against the consensus. I am just trying to paint the picture I see. I think you are greatly underestimating how well respected Michalzick is. In no universe did he need to take the OSU job. He wanted to. He'd be among the first of the Rich Rod regime to land on their feet. Riley said himself he had two head coach offers immediately after being fired. He made the choice to offer himself to Smith, to be a position coach so he could come back to Corvallis, dial it down a notch, and spend more time with the grandkids. So, unless you are going to claim Riley lies to the press to fluff his own ego, teams still wanted his services. Lastly, of course they all got promotions. CJS wouldn't be here for the same pay. He'd never leave UW to be an OC here. Why would ANY coach leave their current job if there wasn't a raise or promotion on the table? are you honestly trying to say we should of hired a bunch of guys into parallel positions for the same money? I can't even begin to understand your point here. In my opinion, our DC Tibesar is a real coup. Rumor is Chryst was going to make him DC, but Alvarez overruled him, because he wanted his ex player and hometown hero Jim Leonhard to get it, which is how a guy with only one season as a DB coach gets the DC gig at Wisconsin after Wilcox left. Tibesar was looking to move on, he was passed up for because of old boy club friendship, not skill. It was right place, right time for us with him. Tibesar has had tremendous success everywhere. DC for North Dakota, Kansas State and Purdue. NFL experience and well respected LB coach. All his stops have been very impressive. Appreciate the thoughts. I did not mention the competition for Riley, maybe I should have. My thought was just that based on the competition he is not overqualified (the other coaching offers were similar) for the position he was hired to. The positives of Riley have already been mentioned many times, I did not think I needed to repeat those. Which is why I focused on the aspect that I did. Us outbidding other schools monetary wise can be seen as a good thing and bad at the same time. You are right that we can rarely expect to "steal a coach" without paying more. We can outbid many schools that are not in the P5 group. We are at the lower end of spending of P5 schools so any coach we "steal" without a promotion will often be seen as plundering from schools with no budget to pay coaches. Obtaining coaches from these types of schools that are not nearly as competitive in pay can be seen as a reflection of the quality of coaches we can get. This may have been one of the biggest problems of the previous coaching staff, many of the non-P5 coaches that we promoted did not work out very well. The biggest pull for virtually every one of these coaches was more money. With this being Smith's first head coaching job. He did not have "his guys" to pull from the previous stop. Bringing coaches in from your previous successful coaching gig always looks good on paper when it is a lateral move. Otherwise you can find an over analytical person like me to find reasons the hires may have downsides. Overall the staff looks good thus far. I give Smith a good grade for the coaches he hired considering this is his first head coaching job.
|
|
EOBeav
Freshman
Posts: 499
Grad Year: 1989, 2002
|
Post by EOBeav on Apr 17, 2018 19:42:12 GMT -8
The rumor I'd heard--and I have nothing to verify it--was that Chip wanted him as an assistant down there at UCLA.
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Apr 18, 2018 4:53:34 GMT -8
The rumor I'd heard--and I have nothing to verify it--was that Chip wanted him as an assistant down there at UCLA. Asst at UCLA or Wisconsin is what I heard.
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Apr 18, 2018 5:43:36 GMT -8
As I stated in a post a few weeks ago, I think the real test for Beaver fans is going to be whether we are able to tolerate the probably inevitable lots of losing that is going to occur for the first few years with any new football coach at OSU.
Because of the condition of the program when the new coach took over, no real accurate judgment of the Coach and his program will be possible till then.
For instance, this year the clearly terrible quality of the defensive line makes winning more than a couple of games very unlikely.
This situation, in a nutshell, is what your football program gets into when it hits rock bottom. Four years to even know if you have made the right choice or not in a new Coach.
If the right choice has not been made, you have to start all over again with yet another new coach.
I am all for Coach Smith and will support him through hell or high water, but how will the general level of support (ticket sales,etc.) hold up through 4 years of heavy losses?
|
|
|
Post by kersting13 on Apr 18, 2018 8:29:34 GMT -8
As I stated in a post a few weeks ago, I think the real test for Beaver fans is going to be whether we are able to tolerate the probably inevitable lots of losing that is going to occur for the first few years with any new football coach at OSU. Because of the condition of the program when the new coach took over, no real accurate judgment of the Coach and his program will be possible till then. For instance, this year the clearly terrible quality of the defensive line makes winning more than a couple of games very unlikely. This situation, in a nutshell, is what your football program gets into when it hits rock bottom. Four years to even know if you have made the right choice or not in a new Coach. If the right choice has not been made, you have to start all over again with yet another new coach. I am all for Coach Smith and will support him through hell or high water, but how will the general level of support (ticket sales,etc.) hold up through 4 years of heavy losses? I seriously doubt there's going to be "a few years" of "lots of losing". Four years to even know if you have made the right choice? No. MR came into a program with a 26 year losing record streak and had them clearly heading in the winning direction in year 2. It's EXTREMELY hard to make a team 1-11. If Smith takes this team "through 4 years of heavy losses", he will rightly be scorned by the fan base. I expect we'll see some immediate improvements in year 1.
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Apr 18, 2018 9:17:43 GMT -8
I seriously doubt there's going to be "a few years" of "lots of losing". Four years to even know if you have made the right choice? No.
MR came into a program with a 26 year losing record streak and had them clearly heading in the winning direction in year 2.
It's EXTREMELY hard to make a team 1-11.
If Smith takes this team "through 4 years of heavy losses", he will rightly be scorned by the fan base.
I expect we'll see some immediate improvements in year 1.
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Apr 18, 2018 9:23:49 GMT -8
Freshman,
Very well stated. If I may play the "devil's advocate" I believe that you are correct that there will be "immediate improvement". That,however, may not translate into wins instead of losses.
There lies the rub. The average fan will not believe (and thus probably not support-buy tickets,etc,etc) until the improvements show up in a significantly better win-loss record.
To continue the dialog how many wins do you expect this year, given the abysmal quarterback situation, the defensive line problems, and the clear overall lack of talent compared to other PAC 12 teams?
To reiterate, I am "all in" on Coach Smith but believe it is important for OSU fans to have the "patience of Job" to give him a reasonable chance of succeeding.
|
|
|
Post by mbabeav on Apr 18, 2018 9:25:55 GMT -8
The rumor I'd heard--and I have nothing to verify it--was that Chip wanted him as an assistant down there at UCLA. Asst at UCLA or Wisconsin is what I heard. Not surprising, say what you will about the Chipster, but he and Riley are friends.
|
|
|
Post by atownbeaver on Apr 18, 2018 9:39:52 GMT -8
Freshman, Very well stated. If I may play the "devil's advocate" I believe that you are correct that there will be "immediate improvement". That,however, may not translate into wins instead of losses. There lies the rub. The average fan will not believe (and thus probably not support-buy tickets,etc,etc) until the improvements show up in a significantly better win-loss record. To continue the dialog how many wins do you expect this year, given the abysmal quarterback situation, the defensive line problems, and the clear overall lack of talent compared to other PAC 12 teams? To reiterate, I am "all in" on Coach Smith but believe it is important for OSU fans to have the "patience of Job" to give him a reasonable chance of succeeding. We will need patience. for sure we are probably not a bowl team next season. But we should all expect to see improvement next year as a minimum expectation. Maybe we win only 4 games. but that is okay as long as we see a team that has an identity, structure, consistency, etc. As long as we see guys in position, clean football, and strong effort we know that he will get the guys over the next few cycles and we are building to something. After 3 years of anything but consistency, that is the first and foremost thing the team needs. They need an offense and a defense and to stick to it. get good at what they are trying to do, stop moving the goal posts around. I can honestly say, we will have a good sense if CJS has "it" in year one... but it won't have much to do with the W/L. it will be everything we see with our eyes. Just like we saw it with our eyes in 1997 and 1998. Even in that 3-8 first year, you saw a new offense with potential. a whole new brand of football. and yes, 5-6 was still losing, but most of the loses were close and of course we toppled Oregon in the end. That is the arc we can probably expect. maybe not W/L and bowl games for a season or two, but tangible, real evidence of improvement, of a new team identity, a new attitude and all that.
|
|
|
Post by seastape on Apr 18, 2018 9:58:09 GMT -8
Freshman, Very well stated. If I may play the "devil's advocate" I believe that you are correct that there will be "immediate improvement". That,however, may not translate into wins instead of losses. There lies the rub. The average fan will not believe (and thus probably not support-buy tickets,etc,etc) until the improvements show up in a significantly better win-loss record. To continue the dialog how many wins do you expect this year, given the abysmal quarterback situation, the defensive line problems, and the clear overall lack of talent compared to other PAC 12 teams? To reiterate, I am "all in" on Coach Smith but believe it is important for OSU fans to have the "patience of Job" to give him a reasonable chance of succeeding. We will need patience. for sure we are probably not a bowl team next season. But we should all expect to see improvement next year as a minimum expectation. Maybe we win only 4 games. but that is okay as long as we see a team that has an identity, structure, consistency, etc. As long as we see guys in position, clean football, and strong effort we know that he will get the guys over the next few cycles and we are building to something. After 3 years of anything but consistency, that is the first and foremost thing the team needs. They need an offense and a defense and to stick to it. get good at what they are trying to do, stop moving the goal posts around. I can honestly say, we will have a good sense if CJS has "it" in year one... but it won't have much to do with the W/L. it will be everything we see with our eyes. Just like we saw it with our eyes in 1997 and 1998. Even in that 3-8 first year, you saw a new offense with potential. a whole new brand of football. and yes, 5-6 was still losing, but most of the loses were close and of course we toppled Oregon in the end. That is the arc we can probably expect. maybe not W/L and bowl games for a season or two, but tangible, real evidence of improvement, of a new team identity, a new attitude and all that. I agree with a lot of what you say here: we can't realistically expect a lot of wins next year but we can still see signs that the program is headed in the right direction, even in year one.
One thing that I like hearing from the coaches this spring is a commitment to fundamentals. DC Tibesar addressed that after the scrimmage last Saturday and said that he hasn't even really begun implementing defensive packages because they are still working with the basic scheme and getting the fundamentals down. I love hearing that and I'm hoping that will be one of the signs we see this fall that Smith has the program heading in the right direction.
|
|
|
Post by kersting13 on Apr 18, 2018 10:04:22 GMT -8
Freshman, Very well stated. If I may play the "devil's advocate" I believe that you are correct that there will be "immediate improvement". That,however, may not translate into wins instead of losses. There lies the rub. The average fan will not believe (and thus probably not support-buy tickets,etc,etc) until the improvements show up in a significantly better win-loss record. To continue the dialog how many wins do you expect this year, given the abysmal quarterback situation, the defensive line problems, and the clear overall lack of talent compared to other PAC 12 teams? To reiterate, I am "all in" on Coach Smith but believe it is important for OSU fans to have the "patience of Job" to give him a reasonable chance of succeeding. We will need patience. for sure we are probably not a bowl team next season. But we should all expect to see improvement next year as a minimum expectation. Maybe we win only 4 games. but that is okay as long as we see a team that has an identity, structure, consistency, etc. As long as we see guys in position, clean football, and strong effort we know that he will get the guys over the next few cycles and we are building to something. After 3 years of anything but consistency, that is the first and foremost thing the team needs. They need an offense and a defense and to stick to it. get good at what they are trying to do, stop moving the goal posts around. I can honestly say, we will have a good sense if CJS has "it" in year one... but it won't have much to do with the W/L. it will be everything we see with our eyes. Just like we saw it with our eyes in 1997 and 1998. Even in that 3-8 first year, you saw a new offense with potential. a whole new brand of football. and yes, 5-6 was still losing, but most of the loses were close and of course we toppled Oregon in the end. That is the arc we can probably expect. maybe not W/L and bowl games for a season or two, but tangible, real evidence of improvement, of a new team identity, a new attitude and all that. I think 3 wins and an obvious plan would be a reasonable enough improvement for most people who are paying any attention to the team to see. Winning more than that in year 1 is certainly possible. We have a tougher schedule with the trip to Columbus on the slate, but this team could have easily gone 3-9 last year if 2 plays had gone differently.
|
|
|
Post by beaver94 on Apr 18, 2018 10:06:20 GMT -8
Asst at UCLA or Wisconsin is what I heard. Not surprising, say what you will about the Chipster, but he and Riley are friends. Everyone has their vices.
|
|