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Post by atownbeaver on May 17, 2018 10:59:17 GMT -8
I don't consider Kragthorpe to be a complete and total failure and in fact think that he started the climb out the deep hole that Joe put us in. Pettibone brought some integrity back to the program but his system simply didn't work. I think that both of them were quality people in contrast to the slimeball that was Avezanno. I think JP had it on the run. JP got Valley done, JP brought in excellent recruits.. but we had a weak AD, with precious few resources and little institutional support, and we had a situation where BOOSTERS were essentially able to force Pettibone away from his system and into some spread variant. The wheels fell off, because it was such a precarious situation to begin with and you forced Pettibone away from his expertise. I also don't see Kragthorpe as an abject failure either. I don't know that I really consider him a failure at all, he was placed in a largely unwinnable situation. The older I get, the more I realize how hard it is to win at any non-traditional power, let alone just Oregon State. Tim Alexander Inoke Breckterfield Roddy Tompkins Robert Prescott Joe Kuykendall Brian Jones Brian Rogers Armon Hatcher Andre Holland Pettibone brought in some straight up studs, and key figures that rolled over to Riley I and made 1998 pretty special. Maybe his system was never going to full work... I dunno, I think a school that looked more exciting, was spending a little bit more money, maybe Pettibone gets the handful of guys he needed to turn the corner. Who knows.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 11:04:52 GMT -8
I don't consider Kragthorpe to be a complete and total failure and in fact think that he started the climb out the deep hole that Joe put us in. Pettibone brought some integrity back to the program but his system simply didn't work. I think that both of them were quality people in contrast to the slimeball that was Avezanno. I think JP had it on the run. JP got Valley done, JP brought in excellent recruits.. but we had a weak AD, with precious few resources and little institutional support, and we had a situation where BOOSTERS were essentially able to force Pettibone away from his system and into some spread variant. The wheels fell off, because it was such a precarious situation to begin with and you forced Pettibone away from his expertise. I also don't see Kragthorpe as an abject failure either. I don't know that I really consider him a failure at all, he was placed in a largely unwinnable situation. The older I get, the more I realize how hard it is to win at any non-traditional power, let alone just Oregon State. I know one thing- the score of the next game isn't going to be on CGA in any way,shape or fashion. But yet we are sure to see Gary This and Gary That in the excuse column. Fact is sometimes getting pasted is on the Athletic Director. And yeah I know Gary agreed to it because he was trying to tank the program jah jah jah
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Post by atownbeaver on May 17, 2018 11:28:10 GMT -8
I think JP had it on the run. JP got Valley done, JP brought in excellent recruits.. but we had a weak AD, with precious few resources and little institutional support, and we had a situation where BOOSTERS were essentially able to force Pettibone away from his system and into some spread variant. The wheels fell off, because it was such a precarious situation to begin with and you forced Pettibone away from his expertise. I also don't see Kragthorpe as an abject failure either. I don't know that I really consider him a failure at all, he was placed in a largely unwinnable situation. The older I get, the more I realize how hard it is to win at any non-traditional power, let alone just Oregon State. I know one thing- the score of the next game isn't going to be on CGA in any way,shape or fashion.But yet we are sure to see Gary This and Gary That in the excuse column. Fact is sometimes getting pasted is on the Athletic Director. And yeah I know Gary agreed to it because he was trying to tank the program jah jah jah Disagree wholeheartedly. listen, it is just like Presidents. In year one of ANY President (this doesn't magically changed based on the letter next to their name) The President is operating under the budget of the previous administration. Any thing good, or bad that happens is the effects of the previous administration, unless you can point to a direct action the person did to change what the administration laid out. Rarely can a president issue corrective legislation to approved budgets. It just doesn't really happen. Coach Niner is the next president. He has taken some direct actions. He has a new cabinet, he has new policies and strategies, and he has some new faces. But his budget (roster) was handed over to him by the last guy. Those are the terms he has to work under. It is the same argument that has lasted now for nearly 20 years. are we 11-1 in 2000 if it weren't for Riley? The CGA administration will affect the Smith one for several seasons to come. There is no if, ands, ors about it.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 17, 2018 11:52:37 GMT -8
I still think Pettibone was several loud boosters and a weak AD away from having some success here. His 4 win season in year 4 was actually pretty competitive. I think they led the nation in rushing and owned the second half of several games physically. If he'd been allowed to phase in extra passing into his running game rather than forced into a fairly complete change in offense I think the team would have been much better off.... would it have matched the next 20 years of relative success, maybe/probably not, but it likely would have been very different than his final 2 years turned out.
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Post by albanianbeav on May 17, 2018 12:43:43 GMT -8
I’m willing to bet JS is pretty optimistic. Say what you want, but CGA recruited some pretty athletic kids to the program. We get sound QB play, some discipline on the line (and a defensive scheme better suited for the kids we have), and we are competing. Clearly work to do, and would I bet on a bowl season? No. But I would bet, come our last 3-4 games I bet we will be prognosticating what we have to do to get to a bowl game.
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Post by mbabeav on May 17, 2018 12:52:22 GMT -8
I’m willing to bet JS is pretty optimistic. Say what you want, but CGA recruited some pretty athletic kids to the program. We get sound QB play, some discipline on the line (and a defensive scheme better suited for the kids we have), and we are competing. Clearly work to do, and would I bet on a bowl season? No. But I would bet, come our last 3-4 games I bet we will be prognosticating what we have to do to get to a bowl game. Wellll.....the one thing that can be said, whether you take the above to be true or not about the recruiting, at least I believe that Coach Smith and staff will at least play the people in the positions they are best suited for, and not run off say, 3 Division ! caliber quarterbacks and hand the reigns to a young man best suited for the slot or wide out.
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Post by orangeattack on May 17, 2018 14:44:37 GMT -8
I’m willing to bet JS is pretty optimistic. Say what you want, but CGA recruited some pretty athletic kids to the program. We get sound QB play, some discipline on the line (and a defensive scheme better suited for the kids we have), and we are competing. Clearly work to do, and would I bet on a bowl season? No. But I would bet, come our last 3-4 games I bet we will be prognosticating what we have to do to get to a bowl game. But there's no QB. This is like saying that a car could be fast because it's got a decent chassis, it's got good brakes, and it's not heavy. Oh but never mind that the motor is a 3 cylinder with a blown head gasket, there are some good parts to work with.
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Post by orangeattack on May 17, 2018 14:46:13 GMT -8
I still think Pettibone was several loud boosters and a weak AD away from having some success here. His 4 win season in year 4 was actually pretty competitive. I think they led the nation in rushing and owned the second half of several games physically. If he'd been allowed to phase in extra passing into his running game rather than forced into a fairly complete change in offense I think the team would have been much better off.... would it have matched the next 20 years of relative success, maybe/probably not, but it likely would have been very different than his final 2 years turned out. orangeattack likes this post.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 17, 2018 15:23:46 GMT -8
I’m willing to bet JS is pretty optimistic. Say what you want, but CGA recruited some pretty athletic kids to the program. We get sound QB play, some discipline on the line (and a defensive scheme better suited for the kids we have), and we are competing. Clearly work to do, and would I bet on a bowl season? No. But I would bet, come our last 3-4 games I bet we will be prognosticating what we have to do to get to a bowl game. But there's no QB. This is like saying that a car could be fast because it's got a decent chassis, it's got good brakes, and it's not heavy. Oh but never mind that the motor is a 3 cylinder with a blown head gasket, there are some good parts to work with. We don't know that there's no QB. We don't even know what the overall offensive scheme is going to look like for sure. What we know is there was no QB last year for whatever kind of offense that was supposed to be.
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Post by spudbeaver on May 17, 2018 18:53:55 GMT -8
I’m willing to bet JS is pretty optimistic. Say what you want, but CGA recruited some pretty athletic kids to the program. We get sound QB play, some discipline on the line (and a defensive scheme better suited for the kids we have), and we are competing. Clearly work to do, and would I bet on a bowl season? No. But I would bet, come our last 3-4 games I bet we will be prognosticating what we have to do to get to a bowl game. You're probably right, but just as a reminder who are those athletic kids besides Hodgins?
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Post by seastape on May 17, 2018 20:59:29 GMT -8
I’m willing to bet JS is pretty optimistic. Say what you want, but CGA recruited some pretty athletic kids to the program. We get sound QB play, some discipline on the line (and a defensive scheme better suited for the kids we have), and we are competing. Clearly work to do, and would I bet on a bowl season? No. But I would bet, come our last 3-4 games I bet we will be prognosticating what we have to do to get to a bowl game. You're probably right, but just as a reminder who are those athletic kids besides Hodgins? There's some pretty good dudes... David Morris, Isaiah Smalls, Timmy Hernandez, Artavis Peirce, Isaiah Dunn, Christian Wallace (admittedly hasn't panned out yet), Kee Whetzel, Shemar Smith, Hughes-Murray, Gus Lavaka, Blake Brandel, Noah Togiai, Isaac Garcia, Elu Aydon.
It's not an all-star lineup, but those guys can play. There's other guys who have definitely had their moments and some guys that I didn't mention because I don't remember whether Riley or GA was their recruiter. There's also some guys who redshirted or played sparingly last year that were noted to have some talent during spring ball. Smith definitely has some (not all!) pieces to work with.
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Post by spudbeaver on May 18, 2018 6:06:52 GMT -8
You're probably right, but just as a reminder who are those athletic kids besides Hodgins? There's some pretty good dudes... David Morris, Isaiah Smalls, Timmy Hernandez, Artavis Peirce, Isaiah Dunn, Christian Wallace (admittedly hasn't panned out yet), Kee Whetzel, Shemar Smith, Hughes-Murray, Gus Lavaka, Blake Brandel, Noah Togiai, Isaac Garcia, Elu Aydon.
It's not an all-star lineup, but those guys can play. There's other guys who have definitely had their moments and some guys that I didn't mention because I don't remember whether Riley or GA was their recruiter. There's also some guys who redshirted or played sparingly last year that were noted to have some talent during spring ball. Smith definitely has some (not all!) pieces to work with.
Sorry, I agree there are good players on the roster. The intent of my question was who the special “athletic” ones are. There’s a difference in my opinion. Of course any college athlete is athletic, I’m talking about in the special sense of the word, say like Seth Collins. In my connotation no O linemen are included. Maybe Whetzel. The only time I’ve seen Wallace in action was his rookie spring game and he got repeatedly torched by Hodgins.
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Post by orangeattack on May 18, 2018 9:24:53 GMT -8
But there's no QB. This is like saying that a car could be fast because it's got a decent chassis, it's got good brakes, and it's not heavy. Oh but never mind that the motor is a 3 cylinder with a blown head gasket, there are some good parts to work with. We don't know that there's no QB. We don't even know what the overall offensive scheme is going to look like for sure. What we know is there was no QB last year for whatever kind of offense that was supposed to be. That's a fair point and I acknowledge that I'm being a bit glass half-empty on this. I just still can't believe that Anderpants ran off McMaryion for these guys, and maybe that taints these guys to some degree. If Luton ends up being a Pac-12 quality player I kind of have to begrudgingly admit that maybe GAG wasn't awful at literally everything.
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Post by kersting13 on May 18, 2018 10:02:43 GMT -8
We don't know that there's no QB. We don't even know what the overall offensive scheme is going to look like for sure. What we know is there was no QB last year for whatever kind of offense that was supposed to be. That's a fair point and I acknowledge that I'm being a bit glass half-empty on this. I just still can't believe that Andersen ran off McMaryion for these guys, and maybe that taints these guys to some degree. If Luton ends up being a Pac-12 quality player I kind of have to begrudgingly admit that maybe GAG wasn't awful at literally everything. Andersen was awful at everything - case in point - Darrell Garretson. He hitched his wagon to Garretson SO HARD. He dumped Collins for Garretson and McMaryion for Garretson. DG must have been one HELL of a leader, because his QB skills were the worst we've seen around these parts since Rockin' Raheem.
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Post by atownbeaver on May 18, 2018 12:17:38 GMT -8
That's a fair point and I acknowledge that I'm being a bit glass half-empty on this. I just still can't believe that Andersen ran off McMaryion for these guys, and maybe that taints these guys to some degree. If Luton ends up being a Pac-12 quality player I kind of have to begrudgingly admit that maybe GAG wasn't awful at literally everything. Andersen was awful at everything - case in point - Darrell Garretson. He hitched his wagon to Garretson SO HARD. He dumped Collins for Garretson and McMaryion for Garretson. DG must have been one HELL of a leader, because his QB skills were the worst we've seen around these parts since Rockin' Raheem. JS will turn Luton (maybe Blount, he is pushing, but I think it will be Luton) into a serviceable starter. He will do this by matching is offense to his QB skill... Not by forcing a QB into an offense he can't run. CGA was good at getting guys that can run fast, jump high, squat a lot and throw a ball over them thar mountains. He was terrible at teaching them to play football, terrible at motivating them and terrible at personnel decisions. (Christian Wallace at CB, Seth Collins at QB, even allowing DG to come to campus at all...not to mention running off Del Rio, 3M, Mageo...)
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