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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 12, 2019 13:13:03 GMT -8
Banker was good until he had to face offenses that were more wide open...then it got ugly. Against pro style offenses,we were solid. We didn't have the athletes with discipline who could even slow down the wide open offenses. Banker could never adapt to the spread offenses that we saw become popular in the mid to late 2000's. Rocky was far better overall imo... Isaiah Stanback and the Washington Huskies disagree with this.
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Post by OSUprof on Jul 12, 2019 13:16:06 GMT -8
How soon we forget.
Banker's version of the gap cancellation defense just didn't have problems with the spread option, it was with mobile QBs in general. Even Stanford's QBs ran against us when we were spread out - there was no one in his version of the defense that could account for the mobile QB in any offensive scheme.
We won few games under Banker when the opposing QB could get positive rushing yardage in the game. But overall he was a solid defensive coordinator albeit not very adaptable or inventive. Banker learned the gap cancellation from Newhouse, who brought it from Canada when he was hired as the D coordinator. Craig Bray was more like Banker in that he used a base 4-3, but not a gap cancellation scheme. Like Banker, Bray was a solid D coordinator but tended to be on the attack more rather than reactive. Was also not known for making major schematic contributions to game.
What Rocky Long did at OSU taking an old defense (3-3-5) and remaking it out of necessity for modern times was pure genius. Experts in the field recognize what he did at OSU and elsewhere in the development of the modern 3-3-5. There is not this recognition by peers for either Banker or Bray.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 12, 2019 16:17:18 GMT -8
Banker was good until he had to face offenses that were more wide open...then it got ugly. Against pro style offenses,we were solid. We didn't have the athletes with discipline who could even slow down the wide open offenses. Banker could never adapt to the spread offenses that we saw become popular in the mid to late 2000's. Rocky was far better overall imo... You mean the offenses that Long never faced while at OSU? There is no question Banker is the better teacher and DC. Mark eschewed several jobs that Rocky could have never gotten directly after leaving OSU. Banker basically not only ran a great program, but if you ask several of his assistants he taught them all they know. He was responsible for more than just players developing. And, it's funny... those "wide open offenses" = an uck team no one stopped yet Banker is seen as some sort of incompetent. We can only hope the mediocre Mike and incompetent Mark type era returns... very soon!
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 12, 2019 16:23:41 GMT -8
How soon we forget.
Banker's version of the gap cancellation defense just didn't have problems with the spread option, it was with mobile QBs in general. Even Stanford's QBs ran against us when we were spread out - there was no one in his version of the defense that could account for the mobile QB in any offensive scheme.
We won few games under Banker when the opposing QB could get positive rushing yardage in the game. But overall he was a solid defensive coordinator albeit not very adaptable or inventive. Banker learned the gap cancellation from Newhouse, who brought it from Canada when he was hired as the D coordinator. Craig Bray was more like Banker in that he used a base 4-3, but not a gap cancellation scheme. Like Banker, Bray was a solid D coordinator but tended to be on the attack more rather than reactive. Was also not known for making major schematic contributions to game.
What Rocky Long did at OSU taking an old defense (3-3-5) and remaking it out of necessity for modern times was pure genius. Experts in the field recognize what he did at OSU and elsewhere in the development of the modern 3-3-5. There is not this recognition by peers for either Banker or Bray.
Some very valid points... except... Banker was highly thought of. Long's D and strategies were thought of more as gimmick and far less effective when facing the power teams of the day. Not only was the talent lacking, so was the scheme vs many offenses. However, every scheme has a weakness unless a team is physically superior. And then you can simply be a mediocre tactician and get by. Part of being the best comes down to Ws. Better era/talent or not, Banker had more and the MR era wouldn't have been the success without those defenses.
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Post by nexus73 on Jul 12, 2019 16:27:54 GMT -8
Banker was good until he had to face offenses that were more wide open...then it got ugly. Against pro style offenses,we were solid. We didn't have the athletes with discipline who could even slow down the wide open offenses. Banker could never adapt to the spread offenses that we saw become popular in the mid to late 2000's. Rocky was far better overall imo... You mean the offenses that Long never faced while at OSU? There is no question Banker is the better teacher and DC. Mark eschewed several jobs that Rocky could have never gotten directly after leaving OSU. Banker basically not only ran a great program, but if you ask several of his assistants he taught them all they know. He was responsible for more than just players developing. And, it's funny... those "wide open offenses" = an uck team no one stopped yet Banker is seen as some sort of incompetent. We can only hope the mediocre Mike and incompetent Mark type era returns... very soon! Here's a history lesson for you on what winning adjustments look like against option offenses. 1970 Cotton Bowl. ND vs Texas. The Wishbone is ripping everyone up. Texas wins 21-17. 1971 Cotton Bowl. ND vs Texas round 2. The Irish come up with a "mirror" alignment, play assignment football and end the Horns' winning streak at 30 by a score of 24-11.
Had Banker been a genuine genius of a DC, he would have only let himself be fooled once (shame on you) instead of shamed way more than twice (shame on me) vs the spread. Beaver talent was decent to excellent back then. His ineptitude to plan properly and MR's unwillingness to fire a man who clearly was a nonperformer vs the spread cost OSU big time. We are still paying the price for that hot mess to this very day.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 12, 2019 16:44:27 GMT -8
You mean the offenses that Long never faced while at OSU? There is no question Banker is the better teacher and DC. Mark eschewed several jobs that Rocky could have never gotten directly after leaving OSU. Banker basically not only ran a great program, but if you ask several of his assistants he taught them all they know. He was responsible for more than just players developing. And, it's funny... those "wide open offenses" = an uck team no one stopped yet Banker is seen as some sort of incompetent. We can only hope the mediocre Mike and incompetent Mark type era returns... very soon! Here's a history lesson for you on what winning adjustments look like against option offenses. 1970 Cotton Bowl. ND vs Texas. The Wishbone is ripping everyone up. Texas wins 21-17. 1971 Cotton Bowl. ND vs Texas round 2. The Irish come up with a "mirror" alignment, play assignment football and end the Horns' winning streak at 30 by a score of 24-11.
Had Banker been a genuine genius of a DC, he would have only let himself be fooled once (shame on you) instead of shamed way more than twice (shame on me) vs the spread. Beaver talent was decent to excellent back then. His ineptitude to plan properly and MR's unwillingness to fire a man who clearly was a nonperformer vs the spread cost OSU big time. We are still paying the price for that hot mess to this very day.
Here's a coaching lesson. The bone was FAR easier to defend than Oregon and its set of athletes. Banker and almost every other DC they faced must be stupid in "your coaching book". One thing to way in with opinion, another to inflame it with an obvious bias/hate. As stated, let that type of ineptitude begin anew anytime.
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Post by nexus73 on Jul 12, 2019 19:11:48 GMT -8
Here's a history lesson for you on what winning adjustments look like against option offenses. 1970 Cotton Bowl. ND vs Texas. The Wishbone is ripping everyone up. Texas wins 21-17. 1971 Cotton Bowl. ND vs Texas round 2. The Irish come up with a "mirror" alignment, play assignment football and end the Horns' winning streak at 30 by a score of 24-11.
Had Banker been a genuine genius of a DC, he would have only let himself be fooled once (shame on you) instead of shamed way more than twice (shame on me) vs the spread. Beaver talent was decent to excellent back then. His ineptitude to plan properly and MR's unwillingness to fire a man who clearly was a nonperformer vs the spread cost OSU big time. We are still paying the price for that hot mess to this very day.
Here's a coaching lesson. The bone was FAR easier to defend than Oregon and its set of athletes. Banker and almost every other DC they faced must be stupid in "your coaching book". One thing to way in with opinion, another to inflame it with an obvious bias/hate. As stated, let that type of ineptitude begin anew anytime. Accept failure. Get failure. OSU's performance on the gridiron shows that dynamic at work. That is what is truly obvious. Calling such as "bias" and "hate" shows you to be mimicking the leftists who are out to destroy our nation. Sorry buddy, I don't play PC like them or you.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 12, 2019 20:23:34 GMT -8
Here's a coaching lesson. The bone was FAR easier to defend than Oregon and its set of athletes. Banker and almost every other DC they faced must be stupid in "your coaching book". One thing to way in with opinion, another to inflame it with an obvious bias/hate. As stated, let that type of ineptitude begin anew anytime. Accept failure. Get failure. OSU's performance on the gridiron shows that dynamic at work. That is what is truly obvious. Calling such as "bias" and "hate" shows you to be mimicking the leftists who are out to destroy our nation. Sorry buddy, I don't play PC like them or you. Lol... no, you don't get how to "play"! More "clueless"... with the wild connections there. But, clearly all based on personal bias. The "ledge" wasn't on MR or Banker. But, again this is "horse" long beaten to death and constantly attempted to be brought to life by those who make stupid statements concerning a sports message board post and an political bias. As I was once told about folks like you, no debating a "personal truth" when is a figment of their imagination. Good luck.
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Post by nexus73 on Jul 12, 2019 20:47:58 GMT -8
Accept failure. Get failure. OSU's performance on the gridiron shows that dynamic at work. That is what is truly obvious. Calling such as "bias" and "hate" shows you to be mimicking the leftists who are out to destroy our nation. Sorry buddy, I don't play PC like them or you. Lol... no, you don't get how to "play"! More "clueless"... with the wild connections there. But, clearly all based on personal bias. The "ledge" wasn't on MR or Banker. But, again this is "horse" long beaten to death and constantly attempted to be brought to life by those who make stupid statements concerning a sports message board post and an political bias. As I was once told about folks like you, no debating a "personal truth" when is a figment of their imagination. Good luck. There are three letters I have for you baseball. GFY. Good luck peddling your leftist PC-flavored arguments elsewhere. They don't work on me.
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Post by ornggnawer on Jul 12, 2019 21:03:10 GMT -8
As I was once told about folks like you, no debating a "personal truth" when is a figment of their imagination. Good luck. There are three letters I have for you baseball. GFY. Good luck peddling your leftist PC-flavored arguments elsewhere. They don't work on me. Friendly has left the debate.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 12, 2019 22:00:04 GMT -8
There are three letters I have for you baseball. GFY. Good luck peddling your leftist PC-flavored arguments elsewhere. They don't work on me. Friendly has left the debate. His moniker is right on... left no doubt about his "connection" to a closed mind and idiocy. 🤣🤯
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Post by BeaverG20 on Jul 13, 2019 5:02:54 GMT -8
I don't understand all the hate for Banker, either. Criminy, just look at the final scores from the last few years without him as the DC. Below is how many times during the season the Beavers had 40 or more points scored on them.
2018 = 7 2017 = 7 2016 = 3 2015 = 7
It has happened with shocking regularity since Banker and Riley left. It actually has happened more in the past 3 seasons than it happened to Banker and Riley the entire time they were here.
2014 = 2 2013 = 3 2012 = 1 2011 = 1 2010 = 0 2009 = 2 2008 = 2 2007 = 2 2006 = 2 2005 = 4 2004 = 2 2003 = 1
I can handle losing. The thing that has taken my passion from this program is constant "5 second KO via flying knee" like results we see all the god damn time. It's embarrassing! Makes me want to kick a garbage can!
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Post by BeaverG20 on Jul 13, 2019 5:04:16 GMT -8
There are three letters I have for you baseball. GFY. Good luck peddling your leftist PC-flavored arguments elsewhere. They don't work on me. Friendly has left the debate. This conversation is quickly becoming a confrontation....
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 13, 2019 6:59:25 GMT -8
How soon we forget.
Banker's version of the gap cancellation defense just didn't have problems with the spread option, it was with mobile QBs in general. Even Stanford's QBs ran against us when we were spread out - there was no one in his version of the defense that could account for the mobile QB in any offensive scheme.
We won few games under Banker when the opposing QB could get positive rushing yardage in the game. But overall he was a solid defensive coordinator albeit not very adaptable or inventive. Banker learned the gap cancellation from Newhouse, who brought it from Canada when he was hired as the D coordinator. Craig Bray was more like Banker in that he used a base 4-3, but not a gap cancellation scheme. Like Banker, Bray was a solid D coordinator but tended to be on the attack more rather than reactive. Was also not known for making major schematic contributions to game.
What Rocky Long did at OSU taking an old defense (3-3-5) and remaking it out of necessity for modern times was pure genius. Experts in the field recognize what he did at OSU and elsewhere in the development of the modern 3-3-5. There is not this recognition by peers for either Banker or Bray.
Some very valid points... except... Banker was highly thought of. Long's D and strategies were thought of more as gimmick and far less effective when facing the power teams of the day. Not only was the talent lacking, so was the scheme vs many offenses. However, every scheme has a weakness unless a team is physically superior. And then you can simply be a mediocre tactician and get by. Part of being the best comes down to Ws. Better era/talent or not, Banker had more and the MR era wouldn't have been the success without those defenses. I liked Banker. Just thought Long did more with less. And, Long’s defenses may have been considered a gimmick, but wasn’t uo’s offense considered a gimmick when it came out? You know, the one Banker and numerous other DC’s had no clue how to stop.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 13, 2019 7:56:09 GMT -8
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