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Post by keizerbeav on Sept 1, 2019 13:19:14 GMT -8
OSU has to get coaches, coordinators in particular who can coach the talent up in a very talented conference. This defense is overrun virtually every game. Tibesar looks overmatched as does our D-Line Coach. Rocky Long was an example of a coordinator who did great things with average talent, as did Bray and Banker at times. With a 4-5 year time frame and year 2 looking completely overmatched (our D) it isn’t looking good. Coach Smith has a narrow window to succeed and a very good initial staff was a must. We didn’t get it. One more thing missing - toughness. We had this under Erickson and I would argue for much of Coach Riley’s Regime.
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Post by alaskabeav on Sept 1, 2019 15:58:29 GMT -8
Aren’t Their are a lot of defensive scheme out there and still have base college defenses. Did we scout these guys? It appears they built everything off of the run,[in high school we ran 4/4 and 5/2 to deal with run offenses that start run first but that still leaves 3 men to guard their primary pass guy. We put a guy in either of those above lined up at the tight end as a 4th pass guy but usually jammed in hard at po attack too neutralize him. You can easily use a base three or 4 man front and add one or two more for more difficult running plays? Attack the gaps? If our defense is offensive or attacking then the rb can’t just own a hole. He is delayed. I see to much plain vanilla where we leave gaping gaps for speedy rb and Qb to run off for big yardage. Our guys need to have options and answers cus if you don’t have the speed to get to the gaps then more men seem necessary just fill gaps with body’s
Usually offensive line guys are bigger slower then defensive line guys. Aren’t defensive line guys supposed to be faster To get to the gaps first?
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Post by giantkillers83 on Sept 1, 2019 17:48:43 GMT -8
Well, there's always 2020. see ya then. The rest of us will hang around for a bit longer, you know because it was like 1 game. Take a picture and let’s talk in November.
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Post by zebraworks on Sept 1, 2019 17:49:29 GMT -8
honestly how much could it cost in recruiting to let a bad coach stay through this entire season?? if Smith can see problems he needs to do whatever it takes with recruiting being the primary objective since that ultimately is the top priority over anything else. Last year when we played Nevada I would have loved to swap defensive players and coaches with them for the rest of the season. I used to be upset with Riley for starting this weakling corps of getting serious a$$ kickings and then Andersen took it to new heights...I would have thought a new guy could inspire some blood out of the turnip by the end of the first season but this last game galvanizes my mind that Tibs isn't good enough to make silk out of what OSU will have to offer him (let's face it we have a disadvantage that requires something extraordinary to overcome in game planning and motivating players. the guy doesn't seem like much of a motivator to me at all.
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Post by atownbeaver on Sept 1, 2019 17:56:39 GMT -8
Uh, Tibesar has only been here for 1 year and 1 game, and that game was against what looks to be a powerhouse offense. Give it the season, if most or every team we play looks great against us there’s a problem. My only caveat to the "1 year" mantra... yes, we don't yet have the players and depth. But, Tibs has consistently shown the inability to put players in positions to have success. You do not have to have Bama talent to actually line up and scheme to not give the opposition huge advantages. There were at least 2 dozen times that just by alignment OkSt had the defense completely outmanned. There were times players of any talent level could not have succeeded. Run game... edges and inside... passing game... especially to the flat/outside... are atrocious. Run a 3-4, an Okie Bear, a 4-3 Monster rover... I don't care, but pick a segment and STOP it. Force the opposition to be one dimensional. It really isn't rocket science. KISS methodology... simplify, allow players to think less, play with more aggression. Right now, it again looks like we over scheme and players are slow/reactive vs being aggressive. If you can sit in the stands and see the D alignment is so bad that there is every chance of a huge play there needs to be a change. First, in philosophy... quit over coaching... ALIGN, ASSIGN, EXECUTE... do more with less. Aggression and great tackling is missing. Can't do that if you're thinking and reactive. If players are misaligning on a regular basis then coaches need to simplify. It's on these coaches to put whatever talent they have in the best schemes to succeed, and that ain't happening. If it continues thru 2019, Tibs has to go as JS has zero chance to succeed with a defense that is so poorly designed and implemented. One call in particular is driving me completely nuts. This was on Hubbard big run straight up the middle for a TD. our defense? Addison Gumbs, an OLB, was the ONLY LB IN THE BOX AND WAS IN A SPY ROLE ON THE QB. Snap happens, Addison shys to the the QB side. QB obviously reads there is literally nobody there, Hubbard is straight up the A gap to pay dirt, with Gumbs immediately being sealed off by the guard. Doesn't have a prayer of making that play. Have two ILBs in the box on that play... like is your f%#*ing base defense... Hubbard is at least hit within a yard or two of the LOS. I about completely lost it on that one. The down and distance and situation in NO f%#*ING WAY demanded an empty box dime package. I am not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. Okie St. is a very good offense... but this is gonna be another real long season if we can't come up with a better, more consistent defense play calling. We have enough players that we could have an okayish defense. nothing amazing. but good enough to get off the field every once and awhile on 3rd down.
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Post by alaskabeav on Sept 2, 2019 0:10:01 GMT -8
My only caveat to the "1 year" mantra... yes, we don't yet have the players and depth. But, Tibs has consistently shown the inability to put players in positions to have success. You do not have to have Bama talent to actually line up and scheme to not give the opposition huge advantages. There were at least 2 dozen times that just by alignment OkSt had the defense completely outmanned. There were times players of any talent level could not have succeeded. Run game... edges and inside... passing game... especially to the flat/outside... are atrocious. Run a 3-4, an Okie Bear, a 4-3 Monster rover... I don't care, but pick a segment and STOP it. Force the opposition to be one dimensional. It really isn't rocket science. KISS methodology... simplify, allow players to think less, play with more aggression. Right now, it again looks like we over scheme and players are slow/reactive vs being aggressive. If you can sit in the stands and see the D alignment is so bad that there is every chance of a huge play there needs to be a change. First, in philosophy... quit over coaching... ALIGN, ASSIGN, EXECUTE... do more with less. Aggression and great tackling is missing. Can't do that if you're thinking and reactive. If players are misaligning on a regular basis then coaches need to simplify. It's on these coaches to put whatever talent they have in the best schemes to succeed, and that ain't happening. If it continues thru 2019, Tibs has to go as JS has zero chance to succeed with a defense that is so poorly designed and implemented. One call in particular is driving me completely nuts. This was on Hubbard big run straight up the middle for a TD. our defense? Addison Gumbs, an OLB, was the ONLY LB IN THE BOX AND WAS IN A SPY ROLE ON THE QB. Snap happens, Addison shys to the the QB side. QB obviously reads there is literally nobody there, Hubbard is straight up the A gap to pay dirt, with Gumbs immediately being sealed off by the guard. Doesn't have a prayer of making that play. Have two ILBs in the box on that play... like is your f%#*ing base defense... Hubbard is at least hit within a yard or two of the LOS. I about completely lost it on that one. The down and distance and situation in NO f%#*ING WAY demanded an empty box dime package. I am not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. Okie St. is a very good offense... but this is gonna be another real long season if we can't come up with a better, more consistent defense play calling. We have enough players that we could have an okayish defense. nothing amazing. but good enough to get off the field every once and awhile on 3rd down.
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Post by alaskabeav on Sept 2, 2019 0:13:35 GMT -8
My only caveat to the "1 year" mantra... yes, we don't yet have the players and depth. But, Tibs has consistently shown the inability to put players in positions to have success. You do not have to have Bama talent to actually line up and scheme to not give the opposition huge advantages. There were at least 2 dozen times that just by alignment OkSt had the defense completely outmanned. There were times players of any talent level could not have succeeded. Run game... edges and inside... passing game... especially to the flat/outside... are atrocious. Run a 3-4, an Okie Bear, a 4-3 Monster rover... I don't care, but pick a segment and STOP it. Force the opposition to be one dimensional. It really isn't rocket science. KISS methodology... simplify, allow players to think less, play with more aggression. Right now, it again looks like we over scheme and players are slow/reactive vs being aggressive. If you can sit in the stands and see the D alignment is so bad that there is every chance of a huge play there needs to be a change. First, in philosophy... quit over coaching... ALIGN, ASSIGN, EXECUTE... do more with less. Aggression and great tackling is missing. Can't do that if you're thinking and reactive. If players are misaligning on a regular basis then coaches need to simplify. It's on these coaches to put whatever talent they have in the best schemes to succeed, and that ain't happening. If it continues thru 2019, Tibs has to go as JS has zero chance to succeed with a defense that is so poorly designed and implemented. One call in particular is driving me completely nuts. This was on Hubbard big run straight up the middle for a TD. our defense? Addison Gumbs, an OLB, was the ONLY LB IN THE BOX AND WAS IN A SPY ROLE ON THE QB. Snap happens, Addison shys to the the QB side. QB obviously reads there is literally nobody there, Hubbard is straight up the A gap to pay dirt, with Gumbs immediately being sealed off by the guard. Doesn't have a prayer of making that play. Have two ILBs in the box on that play... like is your f%#*ing base defense... Hubbard is at least hit within a yard or two of the LOS. I about completely lost it on that one. The down and distance and situation in NO f%#*ING WAY demanded an empty box dime package. I am not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. Okie St. is a very good offense... but this is gonna be another real long season if we can't come up with a better, more consistent defense play calling. We have enough players that we could have an okayish defense. nothing amazing. but good enough to get off the field every once and awhile on 3rd down.
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Post by alaskabeav on Sept 2, 2019 0:24:49 GMT -8
DC has been here longer then just a year he was apart of Anderson’s system at Wisconsin. He was Anderson’s same first choice when he came here. When smith got him that totally blew me away cuz it was a failure to begin with. No he doesn’t need more time Smith totally screwed up their I think. Surely players alone don’t explain why this isn’t working here when it was affective their. [br If the fans can see this as a failure now yes it will cost us a lot with recruiting. We have a great defensive class of players at risk coming up if they see what we are seeing ! Period end of story
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Post by beaversrock on Sept 2, 2019 5:04:40 GMT -8
Tibesar never coached with Andersen. Was with the Bears and then Northwestern when Andersen was at Wisconsin And your living in fantasyland if you think we have GREAT defensive players
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Post by bennysdentist on Sept 2, 2019 7:34:30 GMT -8
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 2, 2019 7:54:36 GMT -8
Well, there's always 2020. Or 2021........
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Post by baseba1111 on Sept 2, 2019 8:01:20 GMT -8
DC has been here longer then just a year he was apart of Anderson’s system at Wisconsin. He was Anderson’s same first choice when he came here. When smith got him that totally blew me away cuz it was a failure to begin with. No he doesn’t need more time Smith totally screwed up their I think. Surely players alone don’t explain why this isn’t working here when it was affective their. [br If the fans can see this as a failure now yes it will cost us a lot with recruiting. We have a great defensive class of players at risk coming up if they see what we are seeing ! Period end of story Oh brother... enough said by others! Try a bit of research!
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 2, 2019 8:19:31 GMT -8
DC has been here longer then just a year he was apart of Anderson’s system at Wisconsin. He was Anderson’s same first choice when he came here. When smith got him that totally blew me away cuz it was a failure to begin with. No he doesn’t need more time Smith totally screwed up their I think. Surely players alone don’t explain why this isn’t working here when it was affective their. [br If the fans can see this as a failure now yes it will cost us a lot with recruiting. We have a great defensive class of players at risk coming up if they see what we are seeing ! Period end of story Tibesar has been a Coach here for 13 total games. He has never worked with Andersen and wasn’t on his radar. He inherited a bad defense. The players he had last year are probably just starting to figure things out, and several of our main players this year only have 1 game (against a very good offense) under their belts. Add to that,the defensive class of recruits we hope to have coming in have chosen to come here BECAUSE of our coaches and available playing time, not because of some great mystique surrounding playing at OSU. Relax, meditate, excercise, eat dark chocolate, and let your blood pressure drop. One game into the season isn’t the time to have a stroke.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 2, 2019 9:05:43 GMT -8
DC has been here longer then just a year he was apart of Anderson’s system at Wisconsin. He was Anderson’s same first choice when he came here. When smith got him that totally blew me away cuz it was a failure to begin with. No he doesn’t need more time Smith totally screwed up their I think. Surely players alone don’t explain why this isn’t working here when it was affective their. [br If the fans can see this as a failure now yes it will cost us a lot with recruiting. We have a great defensive class of players at risk coming up if they see what we are seeing ! Period end of story Tibesar has been a Coach here for 13 total games. He has never worked with Andersen and wasn’t on his radar. He inherited a bad defense. The players he had last year are probably just starting to figure things out, and several of our main players this year only have 1 game (against a very good offense) under their belts. Add to that,the defensive class of recruits we hope to have coming in have chosen to come here BECAUSE of our coaches and available playing time, not because of some great mystique surrounding playing at OSU. Relax, meditate, excercise, eat dark chocolate, and let your blood pressure drop. One game into the season isn’t the time to have a stroke. Tibesar inherited a below average defense. Tibesar made it terrible. GAG could not coach offense and particularly offensive personnel to save his life, but he was a defensive coordinator. His defenses were not terrible. 2018 and the first game of 2019. Those defenses are terrible.
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Sept 2, 2019 9:29:50 GMT -8
JMHO but I think any defensive scheme involving a 3 man line without excellent DL's will struggle. If you don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's, perhaps you should change the X's and O's........ (and I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night) Go Beavs!!
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