Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus?

atownbeaver
Junior

Posts: 4,682

Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 14:37:59 GMT -8 wilkyisdashiznit likes this

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Post by atownbeaver on Sept 13, 2019 14:37:59 GMT -8

Sept 13, 2019 12:33:50 GMT -8 wilkyisdashiznit said:

Sept 13, 2019 9:57:15 GMT -8 biggieorange said:

Which I for one greatly appreciate. THE ONLY criticism I ever had of Mike Riley's Offense is a ton of "round hole square peg" development issues. Riley is sort of right and wrong at the same time here, ever notice the teams always developed a ton of great players but often it seemed to the detriment of good results on the field. It felt at times he was running a AA minor league team where player development>wins.

He had his system and even if the QB (for example) wasn't a great fit, well we would still run the same offense and just throw 4 picks and get sacked all day.

Of course Riley would argue with the talent on the field, the ONLY way OSU was competitive was if guys like Lyle developed into running his Offense during games to be legit players even if it cost us.

My counter is throwing Ryan Gunderson out there to try and run the Matt Moore Beaver offense was tantamount to treason.

You sort of pivoted. I think that Riley is a guy, who believed that developing good players would cause good results. At times, he played guys with high ceilings, because he knew how good they could be. At the same time, at other times, he played players at seniors, who had topped out a year or two before, because they deserved to play. I think that playing seniors hurt from time-to-time. 2013 is a great example. And playing seniors in 2013 did not ultimately do him any favors.

Riley would tweak the game plan around quarterbacks to an extent. Oregon State with Moevao behind center had a different look than with Canfield under center.

And then he drank the Kelly Kool-Aid tried to rewrite the playbook for Katz. And terrible 2010 and rock bottom 2011 (oh, to have a season with three conference wins be rock bottom!) were the results.

I tend to think that Oregon State was great when Riley recruited Riley players to run the Riley system. Too much scheming around players ultimately led to terrible results, which, in turn, led us to Head Coach Gary Andersen.

A round peg in a square hole, rock bottom 2011 in which we played some 25 freshman/first year players gave us a 9 win turn around 2012.

There can be some power to staying the course, teaching the system and taking your lumps. The HUGE caveat is that your system is actually good. Riley had proven in time that it is.

I think JS has proven offensively his scheme works. Yeah, yeah, the team s%#t the bed in the second half last week. but generally I can't complain about the offense last year or as of yet this year. I see the right idea and we mostly execute. we have some damn fine players to boot. like, maybe we got a couple of cup of joe in the NFL type guys on that side even.

I just can't say for certainty we will make ground taking our lumps on the defensive side though...

jimbeav
Freshman

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Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 15:31:58 GMT -8 zzufrevaeb and OSUprof like this

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Post by jimbeav on Sept 13, 2019 15:31:58 GMT -8

Sept 13, 2019 14:37:59 GMT -8 atownbeaver said:

Sept 13, 2019 12:33:50 GMT -8 wilkyisdashiznit said:

I just can't say for certainty we will make ground taking our lumps on the defensive side though...

This is the crux of the problem with our program right now. Last year's defense was among the worst in our program's HISTORY, and I'm having trouble hanging my hat on the notion that if we just stay the course, we'll be fine. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that.

We hired a linebacker coach from a decent program to be our DC. His only experience as a DC was for one year at Purdue about 8 years ago, and his results there were pretty mediocre.

I am very fearful that we've hired a DC who has hit the Peter Principle. Can anybody really argue otherwise?

biggieorange
Freshman

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Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 15:47:49 GMT -8 wilkyisdashiznit likes this

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Post by biggieorange on Sept 13, 2019 15:47:49 GMT -8

Sept 13, 2019 14:33:37 GMT -8 drunkandstoopidbeav said:

Sept 13, 2019 12:33:50 GMT -8 wilkyisdashiznit said:

You sort of pivoted. I think that Riley is a guy, who believed that developing good players would cause good results. At times, he played guys with high ceilings, because he knew how good they could be. At the same time, at other times, he played players at seniors, who had topped out a year or two before, because they deserved to play. I think that playing seniors hurt from time-to-time. 2013 is a great example. And playing seniors in 2013 did not ultimately do him any favors.

Riley would tweak the game plan around quarterbacks to an extent. Oregon State with Moevao behind center had a different look than with Canfield under center.

And then he drank the Kelly Kool-Aid tried to rewrite the playbook for Katz. And terrible 2010 and rock bottom 2011 (oh, to have a season with three conference wins be rock bottom!) were the results.

I tend to think that Oregon State was great when Riley recruited Riley players to run the Riley system. Too much scheming around players ultimately led to terrible results, which, in turn, led us to Head Coach Gary Andersen.

Who were those seniors he shouldn't have given as much time, and who were the youngerkids who shouldhave had more PT? I could argue Vaz in the bowl game, other than that I'm having a tough time figuring it out

Actually I probably wasn't very clear, but I think I argued the opposite.

Riley had a tendancy to play, as wilky pointed out the "high ceiling guys" even if they couldn't win now. Or to have guys play in a system they weren't suit to and hope they eventually "developed".

nabeav
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Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 16:43:54 GMT -8 via mobile beavadelic likes this

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Post by nabeav on Sept 13, 2019 16:43:54 GMT -8

Riley was coaching with the kids’ future in mind, preparing the young ones with talent for the next level and letting the less talented seniors play when he could to reward their contributions to the program?

Weird.

Accepting Mediocrity Since 1997

wilkyisdashiznit
Terry Baker Club

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Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 16:54:49 GMT -8 zzufrevaeb likes this

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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 13, 2019 16:54:49 GMT -8

Sept 13, 2019 14:33:37 GMT -8 drunkandstoopidbeav said:

Sept 13, 2019 12:33:50 GMT -8 wilkyisdashiznit said:

You sort of pivoted. I think that Riley is a guy, who believed that developing good players would cause good results. At times, he played guys with high ceilings, because he knew how good they could be. At the same time, at other times, he played players at seniors, who had topped out a year or two before, because they deserved to play. I think that playing seniors hurt from time-to-time. 2013 is a great example. And playing seniors in 2013 did not ultimately do him any favors.

Riley would tweak the game plan around quarterbacks to an extent. Oregon State with Moevao behind center had a different look than with Canfield under center.

And then he drank the Kelly Kool-Aid tried to rewrite the playbook for Katz. And terrible 2010 and rock bottom 2011 (oh, to have a season with three conference wins be rock bottom!) were the results.

I tend to think that Oregon State was great when Riley recruited Riley players to run the Riley system. Too much scheming around players ultimately led to terrible results, which, in turn, led us to Head Coach Gary Andersen.

Who were those seniors he shouldn't have given as much time, and who were the younger kids who should have had more PT? I could argue Vaz in the bowl game, other than that I'm having a tough time figuring it out

Jabral Johnson over Rommel Mageo in 2014 is the one that pops into my mind and Joel Skotte over Mageo in 2013 is the second. Mageo had the look of the next great Mike Backer but kept getting buried in the depth chart for some reason. And, then Andersen was hired, and Mageo apparently was too talented to play on Andersen's vaunted defense.

giantkillers83 Sophomore Posts: 1,304	Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 17:43:42 GMT -8 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by giantkillers83 on Sept 13, 2019 17:43:42 GMT -8 Sept 10, 2019 15:28:38 GMT -8 Judge Smails said: Highly doubtful that the team took a bus back from Hawaii. Rim shot.... please eat the fatty veal.

sagebrush
Junior

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Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 18:02:42 GMT -8 zzufrevaeb and OSUprof like this

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Post by sagebrush on Sept 13, 2019 18:02:42 GMT -8

In the Alamo Bowl, it was easy to figure out. Vaz played and got a little dinged. Here comes Mannion. 6 plays, 41 yards. TD. All RUNS. It was pretty obvious he had some arm/shoulder problem. Back comes Vaz and for some reason the run disappears. All on Riley.

beavadelic
Sophomore

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Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 18:38:33 GMT -8 via mobile nsh03 likes this

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Post by beavadelic on Sept 13, 2019 18:38:33 GMT -8

Sept 10, 2019 14:43:42 GMT -8 fridaynightlights said:

Of course Smith is right. But IMO it is the kind of thing you talk about with the player behind closed doors. Airing him out in public accomplishes nothing positive. I am sure no one feels worse about it then Togiai.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Current players have grown up in an area in which everyone wins and gets a trophy. Speaking truth may not be pleasant, but their is no one in Beaver Nation who can legitimately disagree that Noah is not getting the job done. He has never seemed reliable catching the ball, but if he didn’t have reasonable hands he wouldn’t be starting or getting the ball thrown his way. Noah himself would probably be in front of the line admitting that he has to step up. Athletically, he could probably play on Sundays, but he’s got no chance of doing that if he doesn’t focus and finish a lot better. I’ve got no problem with JS stating what everyone in the press room already knew to be true.

beavadelic
Sophomore

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Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 18:41:47 GMT -8 via mobile Mike84 and beaver1989 like this

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Post by beavadelic on Sept 13, 2019 18:41:47 GMT -8

Sept 10, 2019 20:38:02 GMT -8 avidbeaver said:

Sept 10, 2019 17:18:02 GMT -8 qbeaver said:

I don't blame the coaches for the second half debacle. The coaches didn't hold on 2nd and 4 on a nice drive...they didn't jump offsides...push off on a defender to catch the ball...drop several passes to extend drives...miss wide open receivers...etc. Players execute the plays...or they don't. We shot ourselves in the foot...

The players need to play better and stop the mistakes in key situations. But, the coaches did call a fake punt on their own thirty in a tied game. They need to make a better decisions.

Also very true. There are plenty of folks who can claim some burden of responsibility for a lack of clutch. In this context, JS was addressing a question specifically addressing the tight ends. The one TE who had the targets and opportunities didn’t perform.

zzufrevaeb
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Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 19:36:36 GMT -8 OSUprof likes this

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Post by zzufrevaeb on Sept 13, 2019 19:36:36 GMT -8

Sept 13, 2019 15:31:58 GMT -8 jimbeav said:

Sept 13, 2019 14:37:59 GMT -8 atownbeaver said:

I just can't say for certainty we will make ground taking our lumps on the defensive side though...

This is the crux of the problem with our program right now. Last year's defense was among the worst in our program's HISTORY, and I'm having trouble hanging my hat on the notion that if we just stay the course, we'll be fine. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that.

We hired a linebacker coach from a decent program to be our DC. His only experience as a DC was for one year at Purdue about 8 years ago, and his results there were pretty mediocre.

I am very fearful that we've hired a DC who has hit the Peter Principle. Can anybody really argue otherwise?

I don't think he'll be around much longer...just a hunch.

OSUprof
Freshman

Posts: 412

Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 13, 2019 20:33:09 GMT -8 jimbeav likes this

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Post by OSUprof on Sept 13, 2019 20:33:09 GMT -8

Sept 13, 2019 15:31:58 GMT -8 jimbeav said:

Sept 13, 2019 14:37:59 GMT -8 atownbeaver said:

I just can't say for certainty we will make ground taking our lumps on the defensive side though...

This is the crux of the problem with our program right now. Last year's defense was among the worst in our program's HISTORY, and I'm having trouble hanging my hat on the notion that if we just stay the course, we'll be fine. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that.

We hired a linebacker coach from a decent program to be our DC. His only experience as a DC was for one year at Purdue about 8 years ago, and his results there were pretty mediocre.

I am very fearful that we've hired a DC who has hit the Peter Principle. Can anybody really argue otherwise?

One small quibble to your otherwise spot on post. He was also DC at Kansas State for two seasons in addition to the one year at Purdue for his FBS experience. No winning seasons in his 5th year as DC, 18-33 overall.

grackle
Sophomore

Posts: 1,097

Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 14, 2019 7:17:01 GMT -8

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Post by grackle on Sept 14, 2019 7:17:01 GMT -8

Sept 13, 2019 20:33:09 GMT -8 OSUprof said:

Sept 13, 2019 15:31:58 GMT -8 jimbeav said:

This is the crux of the problem with our program right now. Last year's defense was among the worst in our program's HISTORY, and I'm having trouble hanging my hat on the notion that if we just stay the course, we'll be fine. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that.

We hired a linebacker coach from a decent program to be our DC. His only experience as a DC was for one year at Purdue about 8 years ago, and his results there were pretty mediocre.

I am very fearful that we've hired a DC who has hit the Peter Principle. Can anybody really argue otherwise?

One small quibble to your otherwise spot on post. He was also DC at Kansas State for two seasons in addition to the one year at Purdue for his FBS experience. No winning seasons in his 5th year as DC, 18-33 overall.

Our DC's hiring never made any sense to me. IMO, there was virtually nothing in his record to indicate he would be particularly successful. Maybe Niner just couldn't find anyone else??

atownbeaver
Junior

Posts: 4,682

Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 14, 2019 9:00:21 GMT -8 nsh03 likes this

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Post by atownbeaver on Sept 14, 2019 9:00:21 GMT -8

Sept 13, 2019 20:33:09 GMT -8 OSUprof said:

Sept 13, 2019 15:31:58 GMT -8 jimbeav said:

This is the crux of the problem with our program right now. Last year's defense was among the worst in our program's HISTORY, and I'm having trouble hanging my hat on the notion that if we just stay the course, we'll be fine. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that.

We hired a linebacker coach from a decent program to be our DC. His only experience as a DC was for one year at Purdue about 8 years ago, and his results there were pretty mediocre.

I am very fearful that we've hired a DC who has hit the Peter Principle. Can anybody really argue otherwise?

One small quibble to your otherwise spot on post. He was also DC at Kansas State for two seasons in addition to the one year at Purdue for his FBS experience. No winning seasons in his 5th year as DC, 18-33 overall.

Word on the street is that he was supposed to be Chryst's choice to replace Wilcox. AD Alveraz overruled Chryst and went with a fan favorite, Wisconsin legend in Leonhard.

In many ways the same way we went with Smith.

Except, Smith at least had a decent, if only mildly light, resume coming in. Leonhard had zero coaching experience, let alone DC experience. He was one season removed from retiring from the NFL. It was that slighting that opened the door for Tibs to put his name out there. I also have to believe that Chryst did give Smith a vote of confidence. He was Smith's OC for 2 years after all.

But all that said, sometimes you have no idea how a person will perform until the lights come on.

rockybeav
Freshman

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Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus? Sept 14, 2019 11:40:35 GMT -8 via mobile nsh03 likes this

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Post by rockybeav on Sept 14, 2019 11:40:35 GMT -8

Sept 14, 2019 9:00:21 GMT -8 atownbeaver said:

Sept 13, 2019 20:33:09 GMT -8 OSUprof said:

One small quibble to your otherwise spot on post. He was also DC at Kansas State for two seasons in addition to the one year at Purdue for his FBS experience. No winning seasons in his 5th year as DC, 18-33 overall.

Word on the street is that he was supposed to be Chryst's choice to replace Wilcox. AD Alveraz overruled Chryst and went with a fan favorite, Wisconsin legend in Leonhard.

In many ways the same way we went with Smith.

Except, Smith at least had a decent, if only mildly light, resume coming in. Leonhard had zero coaching experience, let alone DC experience. He was one season removed from retiring from the NFL. It was that slighting that opened the door for Tibs to put his name out there. I also have to believe that Chryst did give Smith a vote of confidence. He was Smith's OC for 2 years after all.

But all that said, sometimes you have no idea how a person will perform until the lights come on.

My Wisconsin alum friends have mentioned the same thing - Tibs was bypassed for the DC job because Leonhard was a fan favorite, and they regret they lost him. Small sample size, but the handful of Badger friends I have spoke very highly of Tibs, crediting him with some outstanding OLB play.

Tibs took over a roster of a lot of FCS level talent. Look at the transfers out of the program and where they have ended up. Also, the players have had to learn new schemes from Sitake, Clune-less, etc.

Consider also the starters on D line remain largely the same, with the exception of Whittley. No Reichner, no Sandberg, and Rawls in some limited action. Our most experienced OLB is (probably) out for the season.The biggest impact newcomer (Gumbs) is now lost for the year. Our secondary is young and inexperienced. Morris and Moore have not played (or have hardly played).

Tibs is a smart guy, and only took the job because he was the only staff member to receive a 3-year contract instead of 2. He and Niner knew it would be a long road. Not being an apologist, but trying to be realistic here. As frustrating as the defense is to watch, I just don’t know how much he is to blame. Then again, I’m not an expert when it comes to scheme.

Did Smith Throw Team Under Bus?

Post by atownbeaver on Sept 13, 2019 14:37:59 GMT -8

Post by jimbeav on Sept 13, 2019 15:31:58 GMT -8

Post by biggieorange on Sept 13, 2019 15:47:49 GMT -8

Post by nabeav on Sept 13, 2019 16:43:54 GMT -8

Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 13, 2019 16:54:49 GMT -8

Post by giantkillers83 on Sept 13, 2019 17:43:42 GMT -8

Post by sagebrush on Sept 13, 2019 18:02:42 GMT -8

Post by beavadelic on Sept 13, 2019 18:38:33 GMT -8

Post by beavadelic on Sept 13, 2019 18:41:47 GMT -8

Post by zzufrevaeb on Sept 13, 2019 19:36:36 GMT -8

Post by OSUprof on Sept 13, 2019 20:33:09 GMT -8

Post by grackle on Sept 14, 2019 7:17:01 GMT -8

Post by atownbeaver on Sept 14, 2019 9:00:21 GMT -8

Post by rockybeav on Sept 14, 2019 11:40:35 GMT -8