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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 16, 2015 10:04:23 GMT -8
Simply put... We are a bad team.... and whether some on here want to hear it, that includes this staff. At this point it is not about Riley, cupboards being bare, what coaches are hiding not hiding. We are laughably bad thru and thru. We have digressed in every area. And folks, this all falls directly on the guys receiving the big $. There would be a lot less hand wringing if there were any semblance of a direction and improvement. I am glad a few people are calling like it is. It isn't simply losing games that bugs me. It is being completely noncompetitive while doing it with zero sense of direction or purpose. Nobody wants to hear the word "identity" associated with OSU football again, but that is our problem. we do not have an identity. heck you can't form one when you are choosing your starting lineup based on a dice roll. we are running out new lineups weekly we are running new schemes weekly, we are taking the shotgun approach and seeing what sticks. and ain't nothing sticking. and nabeav brought up a serious issue I have with defense. We are TERRIBLE fundamentally. we are TERRIBLE tacklers. and I don't know that it is just youth. you can be young and know how to properly tackle. We come in high with our heads down. it isn't just bad form, it is flat dangerous. now consider we just had 3 of 4 defensive backfield starters out with concussions last week. Think of how many times you saw Noland-Lewis come flying in high and bounce off a running back instead of getting low and wrapping up? It is pervasive. 10 games into the season, and we should not still be having a problem is squaring up on a ball carrier, keeping our heads up and grabbing jersey. People wanted SO very badly for our last couple years problems to be Riley. and if we just brought in a new coach, a REAL coach, then we would be this magical new team full of spit and vinegar and be out there kicking butt and taking names... I mean clearly, coach hip-hip hooray was obviously past his prime... except not. We are a team that gets a weekly curb stomping and has no fight. We are a team that can't tackle, and our secondary is routinely out of position. our linebackers take bad angles and ain't nobody on this team that can tackle. Our WRs run bad routes and seem to like to push off a lot. then of course they drop every other pass (you know, the ones that by some act of god make it to them). I don't even know what to say. It isn't like McMaryion and Mitchel were garbage recruits. Both had pretty monster high school stats, both were fairly well ranked. The only QB on this team that had unimpressive stats is Collins, and he was attractive because of his absurd athleticism and sub 11 second 100 times. youth? certainly a factor, we only have like 13 senior or something. but there are a lot of young teams out there, and not many of them are sitting at 2 wins and 0-fer in the conference. |
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Post by ElBeavoLoco on Nov 16, 2015 10:19:07 GMT -8
This season is a dumpster fire!! I want Riley back!! Not! ......but we BETTER see some light next year or my patience will be used up. That's pathetic. It took Leach 5 years. You're giving Anderson two? Ridiculous. I said "see some light" Not "win the Rose Bowl" Breathe |
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zzufrevaeb
Sophomore
Not beaverfuzz
hi
Posts: 1,502 
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 16, 2015 10:29:31 GMT -8
Atown still believes there are not undesirables on the team still. L O L
The great purge happens in two months.
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Post by beavineugene on Nov 16, 2015 10:44:54 GMT -8
I am glad a few people are calling like it is. It isn't simply losing games that bugs me. It is being completely noncompetitive while doing it with zero sense of direction or purpose. Nobody wants to hear the word "identity" associated with OSU football again, but that is our problem. we do not have an identity. heck you can't form one when you are choosing your starting lineup based on a dice roll. we are running out new lineups weekly we are running new schemes weekly, we are taking the shotgun approach and seeing what sticks. and ain't nothing sticking. and nabeav brought up a serious issue I have with defense. We are TERRIBLE fundamentally. we are TERRIBLE tacklers. and I don't know that it is just youth. you can be young and know how to properly tackle. We come in high with our heads down. it isn't just bad form, it is flat dangerous. now consider we just had 3 of 4 defensive backfield starters out with concussions last week. Think of how many times you saw Noland-Lewis come flying in high and bounce off a running back instead of getting low and wrapping up? It is pervasive. 10 games into the season, and we should not still be having a problem is squaring up on a ball carrier, keeping our heads up and grabbing jersey. People wanted SO very badly for our last couple years problems to be Riley. and if we just brought in a new coach, a REAL coach, then we would be this magical new team full of spit and vinegar and be out there kicking butt and taking names... I mean clearly, coach hip-hip hooray was obviously past his prime... except not. We are a team that gets a weekly curb stomping and has no fight. We are a team that can't tackle, and our secondary is routinely out of position. our linebackers take bad angles and ain't nobody on this team that can tackle. Our WRs run bad routes and seem to like to push off a lot. then of course they drop every other pass (you know, the ones that by some act of god make it to them). I don't even know what to say. It isn't like McMaryion and Mitchel were garbage recruits. Both had pretty monster high school stats, both were fairly well ranked. The only QB on this team that had unimpressive stats is Collins, and he was attractive because of his absurd athleticism and sub 11 second 100 times. youth? certainly a factor, we only have like 13 senior or something. but there are a lot of young teams out there, and not many of them are sitting at 2 wins and 0-fer in the conference. Count me in as "Riley and Co" were the problem crowd. And until GA and Co get their guys in I will maintain that stance. I have to look no further than Nebraska to validate that point.
Regarding our defense. Yes, we are bad. Horribly bad. Most of the kids on Defense are Freshmen/Sophomores. So keep in mind Riley and Co. recruiting and style at OSU. Take kids who are undersized, Red Shirt Them. Use them on special teams, coach them and than as 21-22 year old Juniors/Seniors they would contribute and play. However, due to recruiting the past few years (that is 100% on Riley) we are left with the mess we have now. Which is young kids who aren't ready to play yet, having to play. Are these kids not talented? Most don't have a Power 5 offer outside of OSU. And a couple are walk ons or converted from Offense. So, that is certainly a possibility. Also, due to injuries we have guys who were 3rd/4th string to start the year. We had a young defense, very young! Coaches spent time (or least that is my assumption) working mostly with the guys who they believed would get the most PT. And in our first few games (granted the level of competition was not that great) the defense played well. Then guys started getting hurt and we see that level of play slip and slip each week due to lack of depth. I am not putting that on 100% on our coaches. Riley and Co usually always had a decent starting 22, it was once we got past that our talent level dropped, quite a bit. And we are seeing that this year. The guys who are low on the depth chart don't get the time in practice, because the guys who earlier in the year were playing needed it.
"It isn't like McMaryion and Mitchel were garbage recruits. Both had pretty monster high school stats, both were fairly well ranked." Both were 3* I will give you that. However besides OSU, the two combined had one, ONE! other offer. McMaryion was offered by UA. That's it. Not a single other offer to play QB at any school between the two (Rivals as the source). I am sure they are great kids and I don't like talking badly about OSU players, but neither are FBS level QBs, and possibly not even FCS.
Hindsight is 20/20. IMO GA and Co made a couple of big errors. 1) On Offense, instead of blending in the talent we had that was used for more pro style. They went full bore into spread/running QB mode. That obviously back fired. Perhaps their plan all along was to get through this year. Have Garretson play the next two years and go from there. 2) We offered the Portland St QB a scholarship...as a WR. He wanted to play QB. PSU was his only offer and he's doing quite well. Offer him the QB position over Collins, maybe we are in a different situation.
Read a quote the to other day, that I believe applies to OSU Football. Blowouts happen in sports due to 1)A fluke of a game, 2) huge talent gap between teams, 3) Coaching. Well we know it isn't 1) because its been multiple games. So it is talent or coaching. Well, right now I am saying talent. Because the coaches on staff have fairly solid track records at previous schools. Could they have done a few things differently? Sure, but at the end of the day our team is made of kids who were not highly recruited by Power 5 schools, which tells me most other schools didn't see talent or didn't want to be patient with a kid and wait 3-4 years before they could see the field. And that IMO falls 100% on Riley.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 16, 2015 10:55:20 GMT -8
Atown still believes there are not undesirables on the team still. L O L The great purge happens in two months. No. I don't believe we are devoid of talent. I never said there weren't people that don't belong and won't leave. No fewer than 10 players will be gone this off season. CGA has openly said he expects to sign around 25 players with only 2 destined for Mormon missions, math alone states that with 13 graduating and Guyton donating his schollie to somebody else, we need to make some room. You are not some mystic if you are prognosticating a "great purge" any idiot with two brain cells to rub together can riddle that mystery out. But you have to be some special kind of moron to really believe our team is 2-8 because we are devoid of talent and the coaches and their decisions this year have nothing to do with it. That takes blatant willful ignorance. And to be clear. it isn't just 2-8. it is 2-8 and not even being close in other games and really needing to work for those two wins against bad lower division and mid-major opponents. 1. We are (well, tried) running a spread offense with OL recruited to pass protect a pro offense and QBs that are pocket passters. Fundamentally different skills needed. we tried to bandaid the QB issue by doing a late grab on a unheralded prospect. Lets not forget Baldwin has far more experience running shotgun passing spread attacks than read option attacks. As a team we fit Baldwin's resume. Yet for some reason we did not go that route. 2. we are failing badly at running a 3-4 with a team recruited to be 4-3. that means we lack a true two gap NT, and do not have a second inside linebacker on the roster. this has been pointed out by more than just me. Coaches are running schemes we do not have players for this is on them. Our choices have been head scratchers to say the least. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 16, 2015 11:09:25 GMT -8
I am glad a few people are calling like it is. It isn't simply losing games that bugs me. It is being completely noncompetitive while doing it with zero sense of direction or purpose. Nobody wants to hear the word "identity" associated with OSU football again, but that is our problem. we do not have an identity. heck you can't form one when you are choosing your starting lineup based on a dice roll. we are running out new lineups weekly we are running new schemes weekly, we are taking the shotgun approach and seeing what sticks. and ain't nothing sticking. and nabeav brought up a serious issue I have with defense. We are TERRIBLE fundamentally. we are TERRIBLE tacklers. and I don't know that it is just youth. you can be young and know how to properly tackle. We come in high with our heads down. it isn't just bad form, it is flat dangerous. now consider we just had 3 of 4 defensive backfield starters out with concussions last week. Think of how many times you saw Noland-Lewis come flying in high and bounce off a running back instead of getting low and wrapping up? It is pervasive. 10 games into the season, and we should not still be having a problem is squaring up on a ball carrier, keeping our heads up and grabbing jersey. People wanted SO very badly for our last couple years problems to be Riley. and if we just brought in a new coach, a REAL coach, then we would be this magical new team full of spit and vinegar and be out there kicking butt and taking names... I mean clearly, coach hip-hip hooray was obviously past his prime... except not. We are a team that gets a weekly curb stomping and has no fight. We are a team that can't tackle, and our secondary is routinely out of position. our linebackers take bad angles and ain't nobody on this team that can tackle. Our WRs run bad routes and seem to like to push off a lot. then of course they drop every other pass (you know, the ones that by some act of god make it to them). I don't even know what to say. It isn't like McMaryion and Mitchel were garbage recruits. Both had pretty monster high school stats, both were fairly well ranked. The only QB on this team that had unimpressive stats is Collins, and he was attractive because of his absurd athleticism and sub 11 second 100 times. youth? certainly a factor, we only have like 13 senior or something. but there are a lot of young teams out there, and not many of them are sitting at 2 wins and 0-fer in the conference. Count me in as "Riley and Co" were the problem crowd. And until GA and Co get their guys in I will maintain that stance. I have to look no further than Nebraska to validate that point.
Regarding our defense. Yes, we are bad. Horribly bad. Most of the kids on Defense are Freshmen/Sophomores. So keep in mind Riley and Co. recruiting and style at OSU. Take kids who are undersized, Red Shirt Them. Use them on special teams, coach them and than as 21-22 year old Juniors/Seniors they would contribute and play. However, due to recruiting the past few years (that is 100% on Riley) we are left with the mess we have now. Which is young kids who aren't ready to play yet, having to play. Are these kids not talented? Most don't have a Power 5 offer outside of OSU. And a couple are walk ons or converted from Offense. So, that is certainly a possibility. Also, due to injuries we have guys who were 3rd/4th string to start the year. We had a young defense, very young! Coaches spent time (or least that is my assumption) working mostly with the guys who they believed would get the most PT. And in our first few games (granted the level of competition was not that great) the defense played well. Then guys started getting hurt and we see that level of play slip and slip each week due to lack of depth. I am not putting that on 100% on our coaches. Riley and Co usually always had a decent starting 22, it was once we got past that our talent level dropped, quite a bit. And we are seeing that this year. The guys who are low on the depth chart don't get the time in practice, because the guys who earlier in the year were playing needed it.
"It isn't like McMaryion and Mitchel were garbage recruits. Both had pretty monster high school stats, both were fairly well ranked." Both were 3* I will give you that. However besides OSU, the two combined had one, ONE! other offer. McMaryion was offered by UA. That's it. Not a single other offer to play QB at any school between the two (Rivals as the source). I am sure they are great kids and I don't like talking badly about OSU players, but neither are FBS level QBs, and possibly not even FCS.
Hindsight is 20/20. IMO GA and Co made a couple of big errors. 1) On Offense, instead of blending in the talent we had that was used for more pro style. They went full bore into spread/running QB mode. That obviously back fired. Perhaps their plan all along was to get through this year. Have Garretson play the next two years and go from there. 2) We offered the Portland St QB a scholarship...as a WR. He wanted to play QB. PSU was his only offer and he's doing quite well. Offer him the QB position over Collins, maybe we are in a different situation.
Read a quote the to other day, that I believe applies to OSU Football. Blowouts happen in sports due to 1)A fluke of a game, 2) huge talent gap between teams, 3) Coaching. Well we know it isn't 1) because its been multiple games. So it is talent or coaching. Well, right now I am saying talent. Because the coaches on staff have fairly solid track records at previous schools. Could they have done a few things differently? Sure, but at the end of the day our team is made of kids who were not highly recruited by Power 5 schools, which tells me most other schools didn't see talent or didn't want to be patient with a kid and wait 3-4 years before they could see the field. And that IMO falls 100% on Riley.
Riley always made due with what he had. Riley tried in all his years to develop high school talent as redshirts and RS froshes and then deploy them as RS sophs, Jrs and Seniors whenever possible. one flaw he had was JC recruits were considered last resorts to Riley and if he struck out with talent even in one year it could really put a wrench in the works. it was delicate model he worked with. I do not believe he "didn't try" for higher ranked recruits. I just believe he couldn't land them. Part of that is on Riley, part of that is on OSU itself and part of that is on BDC. And yes, Riley grabbed under appreciated and under recruited guys. he did it all the time, he coached them up and turned a good number of them into studs. But even Riley didn't offer kids that simply didn't belong. that was pretty rare. Riley was more likely to get the Roy Scheuing type guy (Monster OL from Montana that never went to camps and nobody new of) than not. maybe a lot of these guys don't have stars, but they have D-1 bodies for the most part. They all run fast and jump high. Surely a guy like CGA can get guys that can run fast and jump high to do it in the right direction... Riley could. I am just not seeing that. I will say there are very few kids on this roster that simply don't have the ability. there are very few kids that aren't fast enough or big enough. They just need to be taught right and used right. I am not seeing that. I am not seeing "coaching up" happening. I am seeing the opposite. I am also not saying I want Riley back. I think CGA will figure something out. But I do know he had these kids all spring and had all summer to figure something out. I am not a fan of what he figured out for this year. |
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Post by devildog on Nov 16, 2015 12:27:45 GMT -8
"Riley always made due with what he had." Yep he sure did. Never less than 4 losses. Never a top tier bowl game. Never a Pac 10/12 championship. Riley fired OSU twice. OSU did not fire OSU. Enough Riley already.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2015 12:42:34 GMT -8
Maybe Riley, who didn't recruit Roy Schuenung, would still be here had he gotten more Roy Schuenungs and fewer Burke Ellises and Grant Johnsons.
Unfortunately, "athlete" seems to be defined in the trade as how tall somebody is, how much they weigh, how high their jump reach is, how much they can bench, and how fast their 40 time is. Not everybody who has good measureables in those areas can hold a block, get off a block, run a good route, catch a pass, or make an open field tackle. In other words, "athlete" doesn't necessarily translate into good football player. But if you're a second or third tier recruiting program you have to take the "athlete" and try to turn him into a good football player (we have had some success with guys with modest measurables who were good football players to start with, guys like Bray, Layburn, and even Hass, but we don't generally recruit those guys). Clearly, Riley excelled at this. I don't know how Andersen turned Utah State around--whether their players were decent MWC players to start with and the team just needed better direction, whether he upgraded the talent through recruiting generally, or whether he recruited athletes and tried to turn them into players. Based on comments I have seen Andersen make, and based on how the team has played, I doubt the latter is true.
Finally, since we're talking about Riley, he seemed to have less and less success at this as time passed. Guys like Murphy, Zimmerman, Welch, Doctor, Harlow, even Villamin, showed disappointing progress. I don't know what to make of that. Maybe someone else was getting the athletes who were more susceptible to development. Maybe the culture of athletes (they are a long way from my age today) has changed to the point where they don't focus as well.
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bbfan
Freshman
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Post by bbfan on Nov 16, 2015 13:35:19 GMT -8
The great purge simply cant happen from an APR perspective...
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Post by electricbeaver on Nov 16, 2015 14:14:29 GMT -8
Atown still believes there are not undesirables on the team still. L O L The great purge happens in two months. You are not some mystic if you are prognosticating a "great purge" any idiot with two brain cells to rub together can riddle that mystery out. But you have to be some special kind of moron ... Our choices have been head scratchers to say the least. Some of your points are valid, but the impact is almost lost when you throw in epithets like those noted above. One of the things that turned people off when reading the P.O. posts were the angry name calling. These are not necessary, and many other readers will be thankful if you refrain. Thank you. We are all frustrated because the Beavs are no where near living up to our hopes, let alone expectations. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 16, 2015 14:31:46 GMT -8
[/quote] Count me in as "Riley and Co" were the problem crowd. And until GA and Co get their guys in I will maintain that stance. I have to look no further than Nebraska to validate that point.
[/quote] Like OSU, Nebraska is hardly a finished product yet. It is not inconceivable that both teams could be slightly better on both offense and defense this next year. If OSU was slightly better on both offense and defense this year, our record would likely be the same as it is now. One could argue with slight improvement on either offense OR defense, not both, NU would be sitting at 10 and 1 and going into the last game with a spot in the playoffs on the line. |
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Post by beavineugene on Nov 16, 2015 14:53:53 GMT -8
Count me in as "Riley and Co" were the problem crowd. And until GA and Co get their guys in I will maintain that stance. I have to look no further than Nebraska to validate that point.
[/quote] Like OSU, Nebraska is hardly a finished product yet. It is not inconceivable that both teams could be slightly better on both offense this year and next. If OSU was slightly better on both offense and defense this year, our record would likely be the same as it is now. One could argue with slight improvement on either offense OR defense, not both, NU would be sitting at 10 and 1 and going into the last game with a spot in the playoffs on the line.[/quote][/p]
Nebraska had won 9+ games what 4-5 years in a row? Hadn't lost 6 games prior to Nov 1st EVER in the history of their program. They were not a rebuilding project. They were a team stacked with talent. If NU hadn't hired Riley, they could very well be 10-1. Fact is, they hired Riley and Co. And the same problems we saw here for years NU fans saw this year and clearly pointed out in their loses. So yes, IMO Riley is the problem clear and simple. Also, as of today OSU's Rival's Recruiting ranking is 35th, Nebraska's is 46th!
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Post by georgevonbeaverstrom on Nov 16, 2015 14:56:29 GMT -8
Aside from the 13 seniors, I think everyone is going to be underwhelmed at the number of players actually leaving. And to name names as "expected to leave?" Good grief... I'm going to give these kids more credit than that.
No one here has any idea who is on board and who isn't - other than Guyton.
Transferring schools isn't as easy as just deciding you want to play at Jesuit instead of Parkrose.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 16, 2015 15:37:32 GMT -8
You are not some mystic if you are prognosticating a "great purge" any idiot with two brain cells to rub together can riddle that mystery out. But you have to be some special kind of moron ... Our choices have been head scratchers to say the least. Some of your points are valid, but the impact is almost lost when you throw in epithets like those noted above. One of the things that turned people off when reading the P.O. posts were the angry name calling. These are not necessary, and many other readers will be thankful if you refrain. Thank you. We are all frustrated because the Beavs are no where near living up to our hopes, let alone expectations. In a new board you don't have a lot of time to develop a report with people, to learn personality and what people are all about. It is hard to tell when people are kidding around, talking tongue in cheek or being sarcastic when you don't know them. and sometime you figure it out what people are all about all too quickly. Also, I don't come from PO, and while I read it all the time, I never bothered to sign up mainly because they take duck hate to what I consider almost an unhealthy level. Man, I like a good rivalry as much as the next guy, but some guys over there need therapy or something. and lastly, despite my harsh language I wasn't name calling. I meant the universal "you". I could of said "one would be misguided to believe" or "one would be foolish to think" and achieve the same point with softer words and admittedly it would of been better. I can see how it could easily be interpreted as directing that at backwards beaverfuzz whom is not beaverfuzz, but I wasn't meaning it like that. even though I was responding to his comment. I was putting emphasis on the notion that it is clear there will be turn over, the writing is all over the wall... and in turn putting emphasis on the notion that it is clear the coaches probably could of approached this season differently, with more success. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 16, 2015 15:51:22 GMT -8
Count me in as "Riley and Co" were the problem crowd. And until GA and Co get their guys in I will maintain that stance. I have to look no further than Nebraska to validate that point.
Like OSU, Nebraska is hardly a finished product yet. It is not inconceivable that both teams could be slightly better on both offense this year and next. If OSU was slightly better on both offense and defense this year, our record would likely be the same as it is now. One could argue with slight improvement on either offense OR defense, not both, NU would be sitting at 10 and 1 and going into the last game with a spot in the playoffs on the line.[/quote][/p]
Nebraska had won 9+ games what 4-5 years in a row? Hadn't lost 6 games prior to Nov 1st EVER in the history of their program. They were not a rebuilding project. They were a team stacked with talent. If NU hadn't hired Riley, they could very well be 10-1. Fact is, they hired Riley and Co. And the same problems we saw here for years NU fans saw this year and clearly pointed out in their loses. So yes, IMO Riley is the problem clear and simple. Also, as of today OSU's Rival's Recruiting ranking is 35th, Nebraska's is 46th!
[/quote] While Bo never won less than 9, he also had a problem with never losing less than 4... and he also never beat a top 10 team. Riley has done that in year one, and that MSU game probably saved his bacon a bit. He also had a problem with being a big ol' meany head. If you follow the Reddit /r/CFB there was a lengthy discussion there about Bo at Youngstown state, and how he pulled two unsportsmanlike penalties back to back which essentially cost his team the game. all arguing a rather pointless pass interference call. He also had a pretty rotten bowl record and got his hat handed to him in the Big Ten championship game. there was not a single Nebraska poster that wanted Bo back. Just sayin'. now to be sure, they all want more wins... but if you read enough stuff, I think you find more fans willing to Riley a little more time than not. Most see he is introducing new schemes and has talent mismatches, and most know they had a pretty bad defense before and it was thin this year. Just my 2 cents on it... Any coach that doesn't pull something hanky or really, REALLY poo-poo the bed deserves 3 years. Interesting that Rivials has OSU at 35th with 2 4* players and 12 3* players and an average star ranking of 2.84 and Nebraska at 46th with 3 4* players 11 3* players and an average star ranking of 3.21... They rank based on points which is directly associated with number of players and their stars. OSU has 5 more recruits than Nebraska.. if you re order by star, Nebraska is #23 and OSU is.... much, much further down. |
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