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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 25, 2015 20:53:57 GMT -8
Many have posted about our first 7 games and I'm certainly not on the inside, but...
More than the "football" worries me. And, it maybe more important than the "football" in the long run.
It's the negative culture and atmosphere that had popped up in the words of coaches and players, and last night spilled onto the sideline.
Players being "defiant... not on the same page... don't seem to want to be here... younger guys stepping up older guys better... etc etc etc".
Then last night the pushing/shoving and yelling between players and several coaches.
It seems our staff has a different idea of a competitive atmosphere than most in the business. There seems to be a definite us vs them vibe in the air. In talking to two players over the course of the last 4 games (both see little or no action and know they are not yet in position to get more time yet) both remark that it is very cutthroat, sides are being drawn, players do not feel respected in many cases.
It's not LaVonda or Richie... yet... but, some posters are very accurate in bringing up the fact this staff has not truly been successful at recognizing and developing talent at this level. I think this staff was a little too arrogant in raising what it really takes to transition a program. They, like the rest of the country, did not respect the talent in this league. I think this staff is frustrated and it is showing.
Right now our players do not have leaders leading them, there are far too many excuses. As much as some will say the "cupboard was bare", I respond, "baloney"!
So far this staff has disappointed, it's been a lot of words, and the post game, "I'll take responsibility" is growing old. We have talent enough to win, we have some high quality kids.
Reasons or results coaches?
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Post by beaverstever on Oct 25, 2015 21:17:23 GMT -8
Not an insider either, but ...
I remember hearing some rough things coming out about the first days at Wazzu when Mike Leach took over, when Mora took over at UCLA, and when Harbaugh took over at Stanford. I've no doubt that the current coaching staff is very different than Mike Riley's, and it will create friction and purging, and so that's not surprising at all - and proving to be the worst team in the league really amplifies that stuff.
That said, the coaches ultimately better know what they are doing, including with respect to the culture development and recruiting - there's a lot of evidence that says they do, so we'll see.
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Post by zebraworks on Oct 25, 2015 21:34:36 GMT -8
We have talent enough to win, we have some high quality kids. Reasons or results coaches? based on the scoreboard in pac12 play for awhile that is not evident so why do you think different than the actual results?
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 25, 2015 21:47:56 GMT -8
More goes into the score board than talent.
So you believe that WSU, Colorado, UW, CAL, even Zona have significant talent edges reflected in the scores we're seeing? It's had nothing to do with the lack of discipline fundamentals, and developing talent?
All things this staff espouses yet can easily be argued to have gotten worse not better.
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Post by gnawitall on Oct 25, 2015 22:07:42 GMT -8
Someone reminded me that Gary was 1-11 his first year at Utah State. Is that relevant here?
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Post by beaverbeliever on Oct 25, 2015 22:16:40 GMT -8
More goes into the score board than talent. So you believe that WSU, Colorado, UW, CAL, even Zona have significant talent edges reflected in the scores we're seeing? It's had nothing to do with the lack of discipline fundamentals, and developing talent? All things this staff espouses yet can easily be argued to have gotten worse not better. Going by recruiting rankings, Zona, UW and Cal most CERTAINLY have talent edges on us. We're 2-14 in our last 16 conference games - only 4 of those were coached by Anderson. You seem to have forgotten how badly we had slipped the last several years.
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Post by beaver24 on Oct 26, 2015 5:42:20 GMT -8
Completely disagree with OP on this.
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Post by nabeav on Oct 26, 2015 5:55:36 GMT -8
Someone reminded me that Gary was 1-11 his first year at Utah State. Is that relevant here? It's not, because he was 4-8
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Post by beaver55to7 on Oct 26, 2015 6:14:16 GMT -8
Just as FYI
utah state 2008 3-9 Guy 2009 4-8 Andersen
wisconsin
2012 8-6 Bielema 2013 9-4 Andersen
huge swings have happened after 1 year in coaching transitions, but more typically the change is incremental the first year, 1 or 2 game change up or down from the previous year.
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Post by georgevonbeaverstrom on Oct 26, 2015 8:48:48 GMT -8
We have zero depth and a team full of freshman and sophomores on the field. This, to me is bigger than any other single reason. Look at MR's recruiting classes from 4-5 years ago. Not the rankings. Look at who is LEFT.
We were already thin to begin with and now we have injuries piling up - Jarmon, Grimble, Harlow, Caleb Smith, Decoud, Larry Scott, Storm, Chris Brown, Deltron Sands. am I missing anyone else? In the 4th quarter we had 4-5-6 freshman in the game on offense - during crunch time: Guyton, N. Mitchell, Togiai, Nall, Clarkson and Moore (May have been Hopkins, not Moore.. not that it really matters)
Our secondary: Other than Nolan-Lewis, we were all FR/SO as well.
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Post by spudbeaver on Oct 26, 2015 9:42:12 GMT -8
We have zero depth and a team full of freshman and sophomores on the field. This, to me is bigger than any other single reason. Look at MR's recruiting classes from 4-5 years ago. Not the rankings. Look at who is LEFT. We were already thin to begin with and now we have injuries piling up - Jarmon, Grimble, Harlow, Caleb Smith, Decoud, Larry Scott, Storm, Chris Brown, Deltron Sands. am I missing anyone else? In the 4th quarter we had 4-5-6 freshman in the game on offense - during crunch time: Guyton, N. Mitchell, Togiai, Nall, Clarkson and Moore (May have been Hopkins, not Moore.. not that it really matters) Our secondary: Other than Nolan-Lewis, we were all FR/SO as well. Even Haskins was out with a hamstring I think. Bad luck..
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 26, 2015 9:49:44 GMT -8
Again... I'll restate... again I'm am concerned with other things not directly related to football x's and o's (record, recruiting, depth, etc.) Those will all pan out one way or another and in many cases are completely subjective.
But, public comments, tossing players under the bus verbally, complete contradictions of statements (".... we do not pull kids for physical mistakes..." is a biggie), players and coaches in verbal altercations, and a seemingly complete lack of a direction on offense (seem to not be building a strength in any one area, but grasping at straws), sudden change of QB in a week (from a seemingly distant 3rd on the depth chart)...
I'm not a MR supporter or detractor... he is not OSU's coach I really do not care about any program except ours. Playing the comparison game is a worthless endeavor. I not only want a winning program, but a program I can be immensely proud of. As of right now I have grave concerns, and it has ZERO to do with wins and losses!
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Post by gzrbvr on Oct 26, 2015 10:01:23 GMT -8
Have you been watching the games? Sometimes, to get a mule's attention, you have to hit him on the head with a 2 x 4. I am so sick of matador tackling I could spit.
Here is my suggestion for the coaches--find the players that want to play the game the way it should be played, play them regardless of what class they are in (taking into account not burning redshirts at this point in the year) and sit the ones who don't.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 26, 2015 10:12:22 GMT -8
Tackling is football related... and for the most part the poor tackling makes my point. We have better athletes than the tackling shows... these guys are D1 guys who have a instinct to go hit. I see tackling/coached tackling as you would rebounding... it's pure desire in some cases with a lot of natural instincts to find the ball.
Do we have players who do not belong on the field? Sure. But, others are severely under performing. Why? I see a lack desire or fire... I sense a lack of wanting to play for these coaches (at least consistently hard) right now... and I'm not sure the shuffling in and out every play helps anyone get a rhythm or develop that sense of fire even if they have it.
My opinion... but, "football" is a VERY emotional game and we are severely lacking in that area. If we have this big of issue in this department this is a 3-4 year recruiting cycle rebuild... GAWD I hope not!!!
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Post by gzrbvr on Oct 26, 2015 11:06:09 GMT -8
Poor tackling didn't start just this year--It has been with us for some time. I get your point about defiance and disagreements--I don't like to see that either, but, I wonder which group players or coaches know more about what it takes to win. I have my own opinion and I am backing the coaches until they get their own players in here.
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