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Post by seastape on Aug 1, 2018 14:07:52 GMT -8
I understood the point you were making. But the severity of the failure to report reflects the severity of the original crime. Very few people would care if a head coach failed to report an assistant that got in trouble for something like petty theft.
Yes, Meyer's failure to report felony level domestic violence by an assistant coach is worth a severe sanction by Ohio State, possibly even termination. But the magnitude of the failure to report simply does not approach what Paterno and a large chunk of the Penn State administration covered up.
As a University official in Ohio the coach doesn't get to determine the level of severity. He is a mandatory reporter (and not just for child abuse) much as in Oregon and Washington, reporting to your superiors/boss is not good enough. However, the hypocrisy of such reporter laws is inescapable. I was told of the 1000's of cases where reports should have been filed, or filed incorrectly by law there has never been ONE conviction under that statute in Oregon! I this case as I understand from further readings, not only did UM not report, the coach was kept on staff for a period of time. He's a sleaze bag and a liar and go join Saban and others in the win at all costs HOF. Does Ohio have mandatory reporting requirements for people other than health care workers in regard to spousal/significant other abuse? A lot of states make mandatory reporters of teachers, coaches, and other professionals in regards to child abuse and/or neglect reporting, but in many states only health care workers are mandatory reporters when it comes to the issue of abuse or neglect of adults.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. With the facts we've seen, Meyer has decided to blind himself to what was in front of his nose and to take no action. Pretty poor behavior.
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Post by baseba1111 on Aug 1, 2018 14:23:50 GMT -8
As a University official in Ohio the coach doesn't get to determine the level of severity. He is a mandatory reporter (and not just for child abuse) much as in Oregon and Washington, reporting to your superiors/boss is not good enough. However, the hypocrisy of such reporter laws is inescapable. I was told of the 1000's of cases where reports should have been filed, or filed incorrectly by law there has never been ONE conviction under that statute in Oregon! I this case as I understand from further readings, not only did UM not report, the coach was kept on staff for a period of time. He's a sleaze bag and a liar and go join Saban and others in the win at all costs HOF. Does Ohio have mandatory reporting requirements for people other than health care workers in regard to spousal/significant other abuse? A lot of states make mandatory reporters of teachers, coaches, and other professionals in regards to child abuse and/or neglect reporting, but in many states only health care workers are mandatory reporters when it comes to the issue of abuse or neglect of adults.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. With the facts we've seen, Meyer has decided to blind himself to what was in front of his nose and to take no action. Pretty poor behavior.
2nd hand info says they do... any university who receives Fed funds as part of the embedded guidelines. But, again from someone a few years removed from working in that state. Also prob could be part of any coaches contract in some clause or another. I mean if they wanted cause to fire him, or negotiate to fire without paying all of his buyout I'm sure this would find a way into one of those contract clauses?! |
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Post by seastape on Aug 1, 2018 14:29:25 GMT -8
Does Ohio have mandatory reporting requirements for people other than health care workers in regard to spousal/significant other abuse? A lot of states make mandatory reporters of teachers, coaches, and other professionals in regards to child abuse and/or neglect reporting, but in many states only health care workers are mandatory reporters when it comes to the issue of abuse or neglect of adults.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. With the facts we've seen, Meyer has decided to blind himself to what was in front of his nose and to take no action. Pretty poor behavior.
2nd hand info says they do... any university who receives Fed funds as part of the embedded guidelines. But, again from someone a few years removed from working in that state. Also prob could be part of any coaches contract in some clause or another. I mean if they wanted cause to fire him, or negotiate to fire without paying all of his buyout I'm sure this would find a way into one of those contract clauses?! RE: Firing for cause-- I have no idea what constitutes "for cause" when it comes to firing. I was sure that when LaVonda Wagner was down to four players because the others had quit due to her abusive behavior that there was cause to fire her. Nope; she got her full buyout. Either there was no cause to fire her in that situation or OSU was afraid that it was close enough not to litigate it. I suspect Meyer, even if he gets the axe (which I doubt he will) will get his buyout. |
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Post by ee1990 on Aug 1, 2018 18:34:06 GMT -8
If we haven't learned how to lose with dignity and grace yet I don't know what one more demolition is going to do. You don't really believe that, do you? Last year, we had a coach who ran away from the team, just as you'd like to run away from Ohio State. Quitters, both of you. Disgraces to Beaver Nation. We didn't lose games last year; we quit. We quit playing hard. We quit believing. We quit on teamwork. We quit, period. GTFO dude. I'm a quitter? Where the hell did I say we should back out of the game? Nowhere. You will NEVER catch me saying that. If you have to make s%#t up then you have no leg to stand on. This is a body bag game, pure and simple. It's embarrassing. |
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Post by irimi on Aug 1, 2018 20:48:36 GMT -8
You don't really believe that, do you? Last year, we had a coach who ran away from the team, just as you'd like to run away from Ohio State. Quitters, both of you. Disgraces to Beaver Nation. We didn't lose games last year; we quit. We quit playing hard. We quit believing. We quit on teamwork. We quit, period. GTFO dude. I'm a quitter? Where the hell did I say we should back out of the game? Nowhere. You will NEVER catch me saying that. If you have to make s%#t up then you have no leg to stand on. This is a body bag game, pure and simple. It's embarrassing. Cool. If you’re not a quitter, then stop whining about the game at tOSU and find some value in it. But do winners go into a game expecting a “body bag game”? I sure hope that isn’t the sentiment that JS is spreading through the team, or else we’re in for another long season. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Aug 1, 2018 20:53:33 GMT -8
2nd hand info says they do... any university who receives Fed funds as part of the embedded guidelines. But, again from someone a few years removed from working in that state. Also prob could be part of any coaches contract in some clause or another. I mean if they wanted cause to fire him, or negotiate to fire without paying all of his buyout I'm sure this would find a way into one of those contract clauses?! RE: Firing for cause-- I have no idea what constitutes "for cause" when it comes to firing. I was sure that when LaVonda Wagner was down to four players because the others had quit due to her abusive behavior that there was cause to fire her. Nope; she got her full buyout. Either there was no cause to fire her in that situation or OSU was afraid that it was close enough not to litigate it. I suspect Meyer, even if he gets the axe (which I doubt he will) will get his buyout. Pretty sure if she were a white man like Scott R, there would have been plenty of “cause”. |
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Post by ee1990 on Aug 1, 2018 21:02:51 GMT -8
GTFO dude. I'm a quitter? Where the hell did I say we should back out of the game? Nowhere. You will NEVER catch me saying that. If you have to make s%#t up then you have no leg to stand on. This is a body bag game, pure and simple. It's embarrassing. Cool. If you’re not a quitter, then stop whining about the game at tOSU and find some value in it. But do winners go into a game expecting a “body bag game”? I sure hope that isn’t the sentiment that JS is spreading through the team, or else we’re in for another long season. Expressing an opinion that we shouldn't be taking body bag games is whining? You're hysterical. |
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Post by irimi on Aug 2, 2018 10:16:01 GMT -8
Cool. If you’re not a quitter, then stop whining about the game at tOSU and find some value in it. But do winners go into a game expecting a “body bag game”? I sure hope that isn’t the sentiment that JS is spreading through the team, or else we’re in for another long season. Expressing an opinion that we shouldn't be taking body bag games is whining? You're hysterical. Just for the record....In my opinion, complaining about something that cannot be changed is a kind of whining indeed. Let's remember that you are predicting failure of a team that you have not yet seen play, based upon last year's data under a terrible coach. Please remember that the number of football players who actually go on to play professionally is extremely low, especially from OSU. So what's the point of the program? Perhaps it is pointless to play games on Saturdays when you have no chance at playing on Sundays. Or maybe the value of the experience lies in teaching young men how to deal with life. If this is indeed the value of these football games, then each and every game has something to teach these kids. Life doesn't always go the way you want, and sometimes, you have to play against the Ohio States of the world even when you'd rather be playing someone else. It's a character-building moment. Winning or losing doesn't matter in the long run. Yes, winning will get you noticed, but if you don't have good character and if you can't face adversity, you won't go on, and life will be harsh. And so I repeat myself: There is a lot that the team can learn from this game, even if they lose. Let's hope that Coach Smith is up to the task. However, there is nothing good that can be learned from cancelling the game and scheduling a weaker foe. If I have mischaracterized you or your opinions, then kindly refrain from attacking me and simply state them clearly. |
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Post by ee1990 on Aug 2, 2018 10:59:27 GMT -8
There's more than last years data, and you're the one who attacked.
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Post by baseba1111 on Aug 2, 2018 15:39:02 GMT -8
Expressing an opinion that we shouldn't be taking body bag games is whining? You're hysterical. Just for the record....In my opinion, complaining about something that cannot be changed is a kind of whining indeed. Let's remember that you are predicting failure of a team that you have not yet seen play, based upon last year's data under a terrible coach. Please remember that the number of football players who actually go on to play professionally is extremely low, especially from OSU. So what's the point of the program? Perhaps it is pointless to play games on Saturdays when you have no chance at playing on Sundays. Or maybe the value of the experience lies in teaching young men how to deal with life. If this is indeed the value of these football games, then each and every game has something to teach these kids. Life doesn't always go the way you want, and sometimes, you have to play against the Ohio States of the world even when you'd rather be playing someone else. It's a character-building moment. Winning or losing doesn't matter in the long run. Yes, winning will get you noticed, but if you don't have good character and if you can't face adversity, you won't go on, and life will be harsh. And so I repeat myself: There is a lot that the team can learn from this game, even if they lose. Let's hope that Coach Smith is up to the task. However, there is nothing good that can be learned from cancelling the game and scheduling a weaker foe. If I have mischaracterized you or your opinions, then kindly refrain from attacking me and simply state them clearly. Hence, his opinion is not changing, so you complaining about it is indeed whining? 😁 PS- discussing why a person thinks it should have been changed whether or happened or not is not whining. It's a simple discussion of opinion. I'm sure you do it all the time about things that aren't going to change, but rarely consider yourself a "whiner". |
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Post by irimi on Aug 2, 2018 18:00:35 GMT -8
Just for the record....In my opinion, complaining about something that cannot be changed is a kind of whining indeed. Let's remember that you are predicting failure of a team that you have not yet seen play, based upon last year's data under a terrible coach. Please remember that the number of football players who actually go on to play professionally is extremely low, especially from OSU. So what's the point of the program? Perhaps it is pointless to play games on Saturdays when you have no chance at playing on Sundays. Or maybe the value of the experience lies in teaching young men how to deal with life. If this is indeed the value of these football games, then each and every game has something to teach these kids. Life doesn't always go the way you want, and sometimes, you have to play against the Ohio States of the world even when you'd rather be playing someone else. It's a character-building moment. Winning or losing doesn't matter in the long run. Yes, winning will get you noticed, but if you don't have good character and if you can't face adversity, you won't go on, and life will be harsh. And so I repeat myself: There is a lot that the team can learn from this game, even if they lose. Let's hope that Coach Smith is up to the task. However, there is nothing good that can be learned from cancelling the game and scheduling a weaker foe. If I have mischaracterized you or your opinions, then kindly refrain from attacking me and simply state them clearly. Hence, his opinion is not changing, so you complaining about it is indeed whining? 😁 PS- discussing why a person thinks it should have been changed whether or happened or not is not whining. It's a simple discussion of opinion. I'm sure you do it all the time about things that aren't going to change, but rarely consider yourself a "whiner". Excellent points. Perhaps I should've added a qualifier about the stated hopelessness of the situation, but I had felt that I had made my point. Apparently not. Good catch, Baseba1111. As for whether I was whining or not trying to get ee to change, I'm not sure that I was. But maybe you are right and I was whining trying to get him to think positively about the game instead of being negative. I'm still new to this board stuff, so I can accept that criticism. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 2, 2018 19:09:31 GMT -8
Here's the way I look at this game-
If we lose, no matter by how much, there's going to be 5-10 guys on this board a few years from now pointing to this game and saying it could have been a winnable game if we had played a nobody at home.
If we win, this game would be considered legendary by most of the posters on this board current and future.
If we played a nobody at home and lost, there'd be a lot of posters pointing to the loss and saying we might as well have lost to Ohio State for a 1.8 million payday.
If we played a nobody at home and won, there'd be a small number of posters happy with that a few years from now, and an at least even number of posters countering with "but the win really didn't mean anything".
Seems to me that looking at the future there's a lot more to gain by playing this game than not.
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Post by spudbeaver on Aug 2, 2018 19:19:09 GMT -8
Here's the way I look at this game- If we lose, no matter by how much, there's going to be 5-10 guys on this board a few years from now pointing to this game and saying it could have been a winnable game if we had played a nobody at home. If we win, this game would be considered legendary by most of the posters on this board current and future. If we played a nobody at home and lost, there'd be a lot of posters pointing to the loss and saying we might as well have lost to Ohio State for a 1.8 million payday. If we played a nobody at home and won, there'd be a small number of posters happy with that a few years from now, and an at least even number of posters countering with "but the win really didn't mean anything". Seems to me that looking at the future there's a lot more to gain by playing this game than not. Bingo! |
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Post by baseba1111 on Aug 2, 2018 23:10:49 GMT -8
Hence, his opinion is not changing, so you complaining about it is indeed whining? 😁 PS- discussing why a person thinks it should have been changed whether or happened or not is not whining. It's a simple discussion of opinion. I'm sure you do it all the time about things that aren't going to change, but rarely consider yourself a "whiner". Excellent points. Perhaps I should've added a qualifier about the stated hopelessness of the situation, but I had felt that I had made my point. Apparently not. Good catch, Baseba1111. As for whether I was whining or not trying to get ee to change, I'm not sure that I was. But maybe you are right and I was whining trying to get him to think positively about the game instead of being negative. I'm still new to this board stuff, so I can accept that criticism. Wasn't really trying to be critical... damn black and white can can easily cause issues with "board stuff". Just sarcastic banter... sometimes can quell threads becoming potential personal pissing up a rope contests... sometimes inflames such! All is well... just a distant view🍻 |
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Post by seastape on Aug 3, 2018 8:06:37 GMT -8
I've had mixed thoughts about this and all other body-bag games and have generally been against them. But most things that I have read show that AD's, current players and former players (including Terry Baker, apparently) seem to like the idea of playing them and coaches don't.
I'm coming around to the idea that if the players want to play these games, then I'm on board. If we get blown out? So what, everyone expected a team that went 1-11 the year prior to lose and lose badly. If we play competitively, it'll create a good buzz, but nowhere near the buzz should we get the upset, which would be epic. The only downside I see is that if we lose and wind up 5-7, no bowl game. A nice paycheck tilts it in our favor. |
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