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Post by ochobeavo on Aug 29, 2024 13:03:00 GMT -8
There's a LARGE contingent of Star Wars fans who believe Empire is superior to A New Hope. I'm not one of them, but Empire is very much in the same league as the original. None of the others come close, and it's a pretty steep decline for all of the films after Empire. I can at least appreciate what Lucas was trying to do in I-III, even if I think the execution left a LOT to be desired. VII-IX were a jumbled meandering mess. I am one of those weird 80's kids and life long Star Wars fans that actually likes Return of the Jedi the most. To be fair, mostly probably due to just the childhood nostalgia of that being the one I like the most as a kid. I can easily acknowledge and agree that the other are superior films and stories and whatnot as an adult. I can also see how people roll their eyes at the ewoks. but kid me in the 80's dug it. Which is exactly what Lucas was angling for. Jedi, being the last film had the most polish, had the more intense scenes, had the grandiose space battle and had the finale ultimate build up suspense. It had the payoff. As an 8 year old kid or whatever I was wearing out that VHS watching it on repeat, it was candy. So, yeah. Jedi has the soft spot, all this stuff is subjective, so I will still call it my favorite for those reasons. I'm team Empire.. similar reasons- childhood nostalgia. Give me Hoth, snowtroopers, AT-ATs, the epic duel in the end. good stuff. Now I want to blow off the rest of the day and watch it.
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Post by irimi on Aug 29, 2024 15:13:25 GMT -8
Yeah, I’ve heard their arguments, and in some ways, sure, Empire is great. As a martial artist, the idea of a kid, who has just started learning, can hold his own against a guy who has been training his whole life is laughable. Yeah, he lost a hand, but Vader should’ve cut him down quickly. There's an old lingering theory that Luke spent months and maybe even years training before he faced Vader. Remember that the Falcon was badly damaged, and couldn't jump to hyperspace for travel. So they had to travel 'normally', and getting to Bespin could have taken a loooong time. And Luke would have been doing intensive training every day for that whole duration. Add in the advantage of youth, and the result of that duel is within the realm of possibility. At least, from a certain point of view. From absolute beginner to master level in months or even years? Doesn't play out in the real world, but it's not the real world. I get it. It's just my pet peeve.
And when training is concerned, youth holds very little advantage. Most martial arts recognize that youth is fleeting and relying upon strength or speed is foolish because there is always someone stronger or faster. And in the Star Wars universe, Yoda proves that age isn't a weakness.
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escott58
Sophomore
Posts: 1,263
Grad Year: 1983
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Post by escott58 on Aug 29, 2024 15:21:43 GMT -8
There's an old lingering theory that Luke spent months and maybe even years training before he faced Vader. Remember that the Falcon was badly damaged, and couldn't jump to hyperspace for travel. So they had to travel 'normally', and getting to Bespin could have taken a loooong time. And Luke would have been doing intensive training every day for that whole duration. Add in the advantage of youth, and the result of that duel is within the realm of possibility. At least, from a certain point of view. From absolute beginner to master level in months or even years? Doesn't play out in the real world, but it's not the real world. I get it. It's just my pet peeve.
And when training is concerned, youth holds very little advantage. Most martial arts recognize that youth is fleeting and relying upon strength or speed is foolish because there is always someone stronger or faster. And in the Star Wars universe, Yoda proves that age isn't a weakness.
Remember we must - strong was the force in Luke. Even as it strong must be in McCoy!
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Post by irimi on Aug 29, 2024 15:29:19 GMT -8
Yeah, I’ve heard their arguments, and in some ways, sure, Empire is great. As a martial artist, the idea of a kid, who has just started learning, can hold his own against a guy who has been training his whole life is laughable. Yeah, he lost a hand, but Vader should’ve cut him down quickly. The thing is - Vader wasn't trying to kill him. He was only trying to get him into the carbon freeze chamber to take to the Emperor. He beat the living crap out of the kid and then Luke "escaped" by jumping into a big void. I would hardly say that he "held his own". It was a pretty one sided fight. OK. Maybe. Certainly his sword-work isn't much better than Luke's. lol Lots of wasted (Hollywood) movement. Neither one seems like they want to win. lol
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Post by irimi on Aug 29, 2024 15:30:28 GMT -8
From absolute beginner to master level in months or even years? Doesn't play out in the real world, but it's not the real world. I get it. It's just my pet peeve.
And when training is concerned, youth holds very little advantage. Most martial arts recognize that youth is fleeting and relying upon strength or speed is foolish because there is always someone stronger or faster. And in the Star Wars universe, Yoda proves that age isn't a weakness.
Remember we must - strong was the force in Luke. Even as it strong must be in McCoy! I hope McCoy trained harder...and is less whiny! ;-)
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 29, 2024 16:50:31 GMT -8
Remember we must - strong was the force in Luke. Even as it strong must be in McCoy! I hope McCoy trained harder...and is less whiny! ;-) Please. McCoy does not need to train at all. His midi-chlorians are completely off the scale. And our own Yoda, Ryan Gunderson, sensed absolutely no fear in McCoy. In other news, McCoy hates sand.
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Aug 29, 2024 17:04:40 GMT -8
Which starwars was battle star in again?
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 29, 2024 17:14:09 GMT -8
I hope McCoy trained harder...and is less whiny! ;-) Please. McCoy does not need to train at all. His midi-chlorians are completely off the scale. And our own Yoda, Ryan Gunderson, sensed absolutely no fear in McCoy. In other news, McCoy hates sand. Hayden Christianson was horrible casting for Anakin. The bad dialogue needs someone like a Harrison Ford, or Billy Dee, for example, to make it work.
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Aug 29, 2024 17:17:12 GMT -8
Please. McCoy does not need to train at all. His midi-chlorians are completely off the scale. And our own Yoda, Ryan Gunderson, sensed absolutely no fear in McCoy. In other news, McCoy hates sand. Hayden Christianson was horrible casting for Anakin. The bad dialogue needs someone like a Harrison Ford, or Billy Dee, for example, to make it work. The only way to fix the dialogue is to not use it. Ford adlibed all the time when he thought the line was dumb and the editors often took his adlib takes over whatever crap was written.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 29, 2024 17:21:16 GMT -8
Hayden Christianson was horrible casting for Anakin. The bad dialogue needs someone like a Harrison Ford, or Billy Dee, for example, to make it work. The only way to fix the dialogue is to not use it. Ford adlibed all the time when he thought the line was dumb and the editors often took his adlib takes over whatever crap was written. Ford took Lucas' crap character and became Han Solo. Mark Hamill kept to the script way too much. Hamill was a better Joker than he was a Jedi.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 29, 2024 17:21:42 GMT -8
Hayden Christianson was horrible casting for Anakin. The bad dialogue needs someone like a Harrison Ford, or Billy Dee, for example, to make it work. The only way to fix the dialogue is to not use it. Ford adlibed all the time when he thought the line was dumb and the editors often took his adlib takes over whatever crap was written. Sure.....but he has some way cheesy linez still. He still makes it cool. Poor Hayden was cringe every time he opened his mouth, regardless of what he was saying
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 29, 2024 17:22:57 GMT -8
The only way to fix the dialogue is to not use it. Ford adlibed all the time when he thought the line was dumb and the editors often took his adlib takes over whatever crap was written. Ford took Lucas' crap character and became Han Solo. Mark Hamill kept to the script way too much. Hamill was a better Joker than he was a Jedi. Hayden to Hamill....."hold my beer."
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 29, 2024 17:25:18 GMT -8
Ford took Lucas' crap character and became Han Solo. Mark Hamill kept to the script way too much. Hamill was a better Joker than he was a Jedi. Hayden to Hamill....."hold my beer." I felt bad for Natalie Portman, who was a much better actress than her character, as well. Several of the other other actors killed it. But it is hard to get too invested, when the two primary characters are so one-dimensional.
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Aug 29, 2024 20:05:02 GMT -8
The only way to fix the dialogue is to not use it. Ford adlibed all the time when he thought the line was dumb and the editors often took his adlib takes over whatever crap was written. Sure.....but he has some way cheesy linez still. He still makes it cool. Poor Hayden was cringe every time he opened his mouth, regardless of what he was saying Hayden has proven to be a very capable if not necessarily great actor. I wouldn't blame him for not being cool, id more blame them for casting an actor who is best at being broody to try and be a cool prodigy turned edge lord. The way the character was written he was oddly on point since at the end of the day Anakin straight sucks. Lucas has never improved at all. Natilie Portman had the charisma of a popped beach ball. McGregor had to use every ounce of his ability to do well in two of the three. Even freaking Christopher Lee at a time that was one of his better career streaks was flatter than Kansas. Blaming any of the actors for those movies is painfully off the path.
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Post by scottishsteel on Aug 30, 2024 2:05:13 GMT -8
From absolute beginner to master level in months or even years? Doesn't play out in the real world, but it's not the real world. I get it. It's just my pet peeve.
And when training is concerned, youth holds very little advantage. Most martial arts recognize that youth is fleeting and relying upon strength or speed is foolish because there is always someone stronger or faster. And in the Star Wars universe, Yoda proves that age isn't a weakness.
Remember we must - strong was the force in Luke. Even as it strong must be in McCoy! Appreciate the effort to try and bring this conversation slightly back on topic haha
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