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Post by gart79 on Dec 12, 2017 13:18:55 GMT -8
I know someone brought this up in one of the threads below, but I wanted to highlight this.
I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but Scott Barnes is allocating the SAME amount of money to the Head Coach and Assistants as with CGA and staff.
WTF - This should put us uhmmmm at the bottom of the Pac - 12 or close.
Oh and we will have 1 more Assistant coaches this year and paying the SAME for the staff. Seems to me SB is shrinking our budget in relationship to everyone else. Makes me think that hiring JS was a budget decision that could be spun into a very convincing marketing pitch "local boy comes back".
The optics on this look real bad to me. Now to be fair, there may be more dollars put into behind the scenes salaries that we are unaware of. If that is the case, I would think someone from OSU would want to shout that at the top of our lungs so our recruits can here that. Sadly, the mice in VFC are making more noise than SB and ER.
As much as everyone wants to believe that last season was all CGA's fault, it goes much deeper than that. (Just look at CGA's record at Wisconsin. The big difference is the amount of financial support given to each school.)
Just so we can deal with these excuses from the Athletic Department. 1. Attendance is down. Yep, that is true also from almost every other school in the country including Tennesse, Texas A&M, Michigan, and Ohio State. 2. TV revenue is not as much as was expected. Yep, no different than every other school in the PAC-12. Seems CAL and WSU still did better than us. 3. List any other excuse, and I can find someone who is figuring it out better than we are.
FOOTBALL is the sport that pays for every other sport (Men's Basketball and Men's Baseball may be slightly profitable or break even). It should be imperative that financial support be brought up to the same percentages (based on percent of budget) as other PAC-12 schools. We all love those feel good stories from the minor sports, but we should not be squeezing football for them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 13:22:24 GMT -8
www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2017/12/oregon_state_football_coach_jo.htmlOregon State is bringing in Jonathan Smith at a discounted rate, increasing the money available for Beavers assistant coaches and keeping its overall football salary pool roughly the same. Smith is set to earn $9.5 million over five years, according to a memorandum of understanding obtained by The Oregonian/OregonLive. His contract, which is being finalized, will run through the 2022 season. The 38-year-old first-time head coach will make $1.9 million each season, earning $950,000 in annual base salary and $950,000 in annual non-salary compensation. The figures are the same for each year, unlike for former coach Gary Andersen, whose annual compensation was set to gradually increase each year until reaching $3.05 million in the final year of his contract. Andersen was set to make $2.65 million in the third year of his contract, but mutually parted ways with OSU on Oct. 8. According to a release agreement, Andersen will make $662,500 through the end of the calendar year but void the remaining $11.6 million in salary he was set to make over the next four years, plus additional future earnings.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 13:27:50 GMT -8
I know someone brought this up in one of the threads below, but I wanted to highlight this. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but Scott Barnes is allocating the SAME amount of money to the Head Coach and Assistants as with CGA and staff. WTF - This should put us uhmmmm at the bottom of the Pac - 12 or close. Oh and we will have 1 more Assistant coaches this year and paying the SAME for the staff. Seems to me SB is shrinking our budget in relationship to everyone else. Makes me think that hiring JS was a budget decision that could be spun into a very convincing marketing pitch "local boy comes back". The optics on this look real bad to me. Now to be fair, there may be more dollars put into behind the scenes salaries that we are unaware of. If that is the case, I would think someone from OSU would want to shout that at the top of our lungs so our recruits can here that. Sadly, the mice in VFC are making more noise than SB and ER. As much as everyone wants to believe that last season was all CGA's fault, it goes much deeper than that. (Just look at CGA's record at Wisconsin. The big difference is the amount of financial support given to each school.) Just so we can deal with these excuses from the Athletic Department. 1. Attendance is down. Yep, that is true also from almost every other school in the country including Tennesse, Texas A&M, Michigan, and Ohio State. 2. TV revenue is not as much as was expected. Yep, no different than every other school in the PAC-12. Seems CAL and WSU still did better than us. 3. List any other excuse, and I can find someone who is figuring it out better than we are. FOOTBALL is the sport that pays for every other sport (Men's Basketball and Men's Baseball may be slightly profitable or break even). It should be imperative that financial support be brought up to the same percentages (based on percent of budget) as other PAC-12 schools. We all love those feel good stories from the minor sports, but we should not be squeezing football for them. so because CGA doesn't have extra heaters in his executive swivel chair he cut 3 starting D1 qbs to start a utah state walk on who had trouble getting passes over the heads of much taller 6'2 linemen? Or was it that he couldn't properly pay assistant coaches to not make those decisions? Not buying it. The reason why CGA is not here is because he tanked the team. That was not a dollars and cents thing. It was bad coaching. Yeah i get the money thing is a hindrance and in the hands of incapable coaches definitely a handicap, but i believe we have a staff in place that can get much more bang for the buck. And hey when they do that i will expect they get paid accordingly.
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Post by jimbeav on Dec 12, 2017 13:36:05 GMT -8
I just don't understand why the situation around the staff salary pool is seen as a negative by some. Yes, the total is the close to what it was before (it's actually a little more, though that difference will likely go towards the additional assistant we're allowed to have). But we have a popular, if inexperienced, head coach who a lot of people have confidence in, we have more money to pay for top-notch assistants, and all of this is revenue-neutral to the athletic budget (which is and ALWAYS WILL BE a major consideration at OSU).
How this isn't a win-win-win scenario, I'll just never understand...
GO BEAVS!
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Post by csb85 on Dec 12, 2017 13:38:41 GMT -8
I think we need to be careful about getting caught up in saying things that feel right just because we are frustrated. We are paying JS $300,000 more than Wilcox got at Cal, which seems like a good similar comparison. Looking at the actual data for PAC-12 schools, if we currently were allocating ~3.3 million dollars to assistants (we aren't yet since we haven't hired all of them), that would put us at the 5th highest salary pool for assistants in the conference. They will probably go up for most schools, but that number is still solid for OSU. I guess looking at the data I don't really see why we act like this is a horrible budget, when really it's just paying market value for an unproven coach and paying parity with the PAC-12 for assistants.
As far as percentage of budget numbers, I haven't seen any actual data on that one way or another, but if we are low I agree that football is an important investment. Is there a place that has up-to-date info on this?
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 12, 2017 13:48:42 GMT -8
Same money, allocated far more wisely.
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Post by osufan2k on Dec 12, 2017 13:53:52 GMT -8
Why pay JS more with this being his first head coaching job? We have an unproven coach and the salary reflects that. We're able to put more money in the assistant coaching pool to pay for a better overall staff. The assistant staff pool is 3.3 million. For comparison, the ducks were paying their assistants 3.8 million this year. That's a competitive amount in my opinion.
Again... JS is a first year head coach. Let's compare that to the ducks hiring Helfrich. Kelly was making 3.5 million in his final year. When Helfrich was hired, his first year salary was 1.8 million. In his final season, he was making 3.3MM. I'm sure if JS can prove himself and turn things around, he'll receive a competitive salary.
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Post by nforkbeav on Dec 12, 2017 14:01:38 GMT -8
I know someone brought this up in one of the threads below, but I wanted to highlight this. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but Scott Barnes is allocating the SAME amount of money to the Head Coach and Assistants as with CGA and staff. WTF - This should put us uhmmmm at the bottom of the Pac - 12 or close. Oh and we will have 1 more Assistant coaches this year and paying the SAME for the staff. Seems to me SB is shrinking our budget in relationship to everyone else. Makes me think that hiring JS was a budget decision that could be spun into a very convincing marketing pitch "local boy comes back". The optics on this look real bad to me. Now to be fair, there may be more dollars put into behind the scenes salaries that we are unaware of. If that is the case, I would think someone from OSU would want to shout that at the top of our lungs so our recruits can here that. Sadly, the mice in VFC are making more noise than SB and ER. As much as everyone wants to believe that last season was all CGA's fault, it goes much deeper than that. (Just look at CGA's record at Wisconsin. The big difference is the amount of financial support given to each school.) Just so we can deal with these excuses from the Athletic Department. 1. Attendance is down. Yep, that is true also from almost every other school in the country including Tennesse, Texas A&M, Michigan, and Ohio State. 2. TV revenue is not as much as was expected. Yep, no different than every other school in the PAC-12. Seems CAL and WSU still did better than us. 3. List any other excuse, and I can find someone who is figuring it out better than we are. FOOTBALL is the sport that pays for every other sport (Men's Basketball and Men's Baseball may be slightly profitable or break even). It should be imperative that financial support be brought up to the same percentages (based on percent of budget) as other PAC-12 schools. We all love those feel good stories from the minor sports, but we should not be squeezing football for them. "the optics look bad" Really? We just took CU"s OC and UA's(the top rushing Offense in conference) line coach. If you're looking at actual results then the optics look fantastic so far regarding assistant hires. It's also just a beginning point. And keep in mind living/working in Corvallis is a fringe benefit in and of itself, voted best college town in the conference...country as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 12, 2017 14:02:43 GMT -8
I know someone brought this up in one of the threads below, but I wanted to highlight this. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but Scott Barnes is allocating the SAME amount of money to the Head Coach and Assistants as with CGA and staff. WTF - This should put us uhmmmm at the bottom of the Pac - 12 or close. Oh and we will have 1 more Assistant coaches this year and paying the SAME for the staff. Seems to me SB is shrinking our budget in relationship to everyone else. Makes me think that hiring JS was a budget decision that could be spun into a very convincing marketing pitch "local boy comes back". The optics on this look real bad to me. Now to be fair, there may be more dollars put into behind the scenes salaries that we are unaware of. If that is the case, I would think someone from OSU would want to shout that at the top of our lungs so our recruits can here that. Sadly, the mice in VFC are making more noise than SB and ER. As much as everyone wants to believe that last season was all CGA's fault, it goes much deeper than that. (Just look at CGA's record at Wisconsin. The big difference is the amount of financial support given to each school.) Just so we can deal with these excuses from the Athletic Department. 1. Attendance is down. Yep, that is true also from almost every other school in the country including Tennesse, Texas A&M, Michigan, and Ohio State. 2. TV revenue is not as much as was expected. Yep, no different than every other school in the PAC-12. Seems CAL and WSU still did better than us. 3. List any other excuse, and I can find someone who is figuring it out better than we are. FOOTBALL is the sport that pays for every other sport (Men's Basketball and Men's Baseball may be slightly profitable or break even). It should be imperative that financial support be brought up to the same percentages (based on percent of budget) as other PAC-12 schools. We all love those feel good stories from the minor sports, but we should not be squeezing football for them. so because CGA doesn't have extra heaters in his executive swivel chair he cut 3 starting D1 qbs to start a utah state walk on who had trouble getting passes over the heads of much taller 6'2 linemen? Or was it that he couldn't properly pay assistant coaches to not make those decisions? Not buying it. The reason why CGA is not here is because he tanked the team. That was not a dollars and cents thing. It was bad coaching. Yeah i get the money thing is a hindrance and in the hands of incapable coaches definitely a handicap, but i believe we have a staff in place that can get much more bang for the buck. And hey when they do that i will expect they get paid accordingly. The argument about CGA is that he didn't have the money to get the assistants that he wanted. I have heard that there were multiple assistants that he offered but OSU could not match the offer from other Pac-12 schools. He wanted to fire Baldwin completely, was stuck with him on staff, which meant he couldn't afford to go get another OC so he had to promote from within. Which was an improvement over Baldwin but still not a competent Pac-12 coordinator. When Sitake left, he wasn't able to hire the DC he wanted and was stuck with Clune instead. And I don't want to disparage Korey Hall but he had absolutely ZERO experience coming into this job - 2 years ago he was a grad assistant. That's the argument. I don't buy it part and parcel - I feel that Anderpants painted himself into a tough corner with his befuddling decisions to run off top-level talent. But it is hard to disagree that the staff was very substandard under Anderpants, and that he didn't have the money to get the coaches he wanted to target.
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Post by gart79 on Dec 12, 2017 14:09:00 GMT -8
This was not suppose to be a post about CGA and his record. Nor a post about whether JS salary is the right one. This was suppose to be a post about the amount of financial support OSU is putting into the program. I can not find the article/post that I read that showed that OSU had the lowest percent of spend for football as a percentage of the Athletic department.
Once again a post is heading south. sighhhh
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 12, 2017 14:15:11 GMT -8
so because CGA doesn't have extra heaters in his executive swivel chair he cut 3 starting D1 qbs to start a utah state walk on who had trouble getting passes over the heads of much taller 6'2 linemen? Or was it that he couldn't properly pay assistant coaches to not make those decisions? Not buying it. The reason why CGA is not here is because he tanked the team. That was not a dollars and cents thing. It was bad coaching. Yeah i get the money thing is a hindrance and in the hands of incapable coaches definitely a handicap, but i believe we have a staff in place that can get much more bang for the buck. And hey when they do that i will expect they get paid accordingly. The argument about CGA is that he didn't have the money to get the assistants that he wanted. I have heard that there were multiple assistants that he offered but OSU could not match the offer from other Pac-12 schools. He wanted to fire Baldwin completely, was stuck with him on staff, which meant he couldn't afford to go get another OC so he had to promote from within. Which was an improvement over Baldwin but still not a competent Pac-12 coordinator. When Sitake left, he wasn't able to hire the DC he wanted and was stuck with Clune instead. And I don't want to disparage Korey Hall but he had absolutely ZERO experience coming into this job - 2 years ago he was a grad assistant. That's the argument. I don't buy it part and parcel - I feel that Andersen painted himself into a tough corner with his befuddling decisions to run off top-level talent. But it is hard to disagree that the staff was very substandard under Andersen, and that he didn't have the money to get the coaches he wanted to target. There’s another potential GA blunder. Baldwin was probably significantly better suited to be OC than McGiven me a headache!
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Post by osufan2k on Dec 12, 2017 14:56:24 GMT -8
This was not suppose to be a post about CGA and his record. Nor a post about whether JS salary is the right one. This was suppose to be a post about the amount of financial support OSU is putting into the program. I can not find the article/post that I read that showed that OSU had the lowest percent of spend for football as a percentage of the Athletic department. Once again a post is heading south. sighhhh If you didn't want this to be a thread about GA or his record, then why did you bring up his name and his UW record in the first post? You don't want this to be a thread about JS salary, but you compare it to GA's salary and coaching staff salary. Again, you brought this up. What do you think people are going to respond about?
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 12, 2017 14:57:10 GMT -8
This was not suppose to be a post about CGA and his record. Nor a post about whether JS salary is the right one. This was suppose to be a post about the amount of financial support OSU is putting into the program. I can not find the article/post that I read that showed that OSU had the lowest percent of spend for football as a percentage of the Athletic department. Once again a post is heading south. sighhhh It is relevant to mention CGA, because although the percentage spent on the coaching pool has remained the same, the dollar for dollar comparison to the rest of the conference looks better because Smith is not drawing a salary quite as large. The problem with the financial support that goes to the football department is multi-fold. It also covers recruiting budgets and ancillary staff and covers things like equipment for the weight room. It's worth pointing out that the structure of the deals we have in place now do "more" with the money than they did with CGA and his staff, relative to the rest of the conference - but to your point, we can't keep expecting to compete with the smallest budget in the conference. And even if we've addressed the problem with the assistants, there is still more to be done.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 12, 2017 15:00:00 GMT -8
Next year,despite having one more coach on staff, they're actually spending less for working coaches due to CGA not receiving his annual raise. They will potentially have to spend as much as 2.65 million to pay non-working coaches though, if none of the coaches from this year find work.
I would hope that once that expense is gone they would make the effort to keep that money going forward towards the football program. Jonathan is being appropriately paid, as long as there are reasonable incentive bonuses based on success, in my mind. The small extra money we can spend this year (remember there is an extra coach allowed) on assistant coaches helps for now, but let's say 2 or 3 get offers after next season that we need to match to retain or replace them... more money will likely be needed.
Thanks to Coach Smith coming in at an affordable level, the paper money shuffle works this year. Going forward it'll be interesting to see what Barnes does.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 12, 2017 15:18:46 GMT -8
Thanks to Coach Smith coming in at an affordable level, the paper money shuffle works this year.
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I think his base pay doesn't change over the life of the contract. Money beyond that will come from hitting various incentives.
Maybe we're splitting hairs here, but the pool for assistant coaches is roughly $700,000 or so more than last year. I would call that a significant amount, even having to pay one more full-time coach, not "small extra money."
Most, if not all, of our former assistants will find jobs and that will significantly mitigate the $2.65 million owed them in collective salary.
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