lefty
Freshman
Posts: 430
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 12:59:01 GMT -8
Post by lefty on Oct 27, 2017 12:59:01 GMT -8
My concern is whether this super exuberant enthusiasm he has shown is going to wear off either by the team getting use to it or by Hall. The remainder of the season will be interesting.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 27, 2017 13:02:04 GMT -8
I'm trying to remember the last "interim" coach who took over a program and actually did well. I recall the WVA guy who coached a win in their bowl game and was retained. That action was roundly criticized. Helton seemed like a bad idea for a team with the cachet of USC. I'm sure it has worked out somewhere, but I'm not recalling it. The WVU coach (Stewart) was a one-game audition, with an excellent team he got to play at the same level. Hall will have six games, a much-better evaluation period, and there is no question the team is playing at a 180-degree different level than it did under Andersen, improved in all aspects. For every valid argument against hiring him, there's an equally-valid argument for not doing what we've done for the last 7-8 hires. In fact, the one coach we've hired since Andros left who worked out in the long run was a guy with no college head-coaching experience (Riley). I loved DE, but we clearly were trending town (8-5, 8-5 after going 11-1) once the players Riley recruited, who comprised almost all of the Fiesta Bowl starters, cycled through. I'm sure Barnes still has enough contacts at Fresno State to do his due diligence on Hall, above and beyond what he's already seen the last two weeks.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 13:13:42 GMT -8
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 27, 2017 13:13:42 GMT -8
I'm trying to remember the last "interim" coach who took over a program and actually did well. I recall the WVA guy who coached a win in their bowl game and was retained. That action was roundly criticized. Helton seemed like a bad idea for a team with the cachet of USC. I'm sure it has worked out somewhere, but I'm not recalling it. Bill Stewart was retained as head coach after West Virginia's 48-28 win over Oklahoma in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl. However, he was previously the head coach at VMI and had been an offensive coordinator in Winnipeg. (Mike Tomlin was one of his assistants at VMI.) Stewart went 9-4 three consecutive seasons, winning the Big East but losing on tiebreakers to Connecticut in 2010. After losing the Champs Sports Bowl, Dana Holgorsen was hired to serve as West Virginia's offensive coordinator with the understanding that Stewart would be promoted after the season to a job in the AD's office and Holgorsen would replace Stewart. Instead, Stewart attempted to conspire with the media to badmouth Holgorsen and then had an incident at a West Virginia casino. When both became public, Stewart resigned. Stewart died less than a year later. 9-4 was not good enough for West Virginia. Holgorsen went 10-3 his first season and won the Orange Bowl over Clemson 70-33. In the four years after, West Virginia went 30-25 with the best season West Virginia's 8-5 2015 campaign and Cactus Bowl Victory. Last year the Mountaineers went 10-3, finished second and played in the Russell Athletic Bowl, losing to an 8-4 Miami by 17.
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Post by kersting13 on Oct 27, 2017 13:18:55 GMT -8
I'm trying to remember the last "interim" coach who took over a program and actually did well. I recall the WVA guy who coached a win in their bowl game and was retained. That action was roundly criticized. Helton seemed like a bad idea for a team with the cachet of USC. I'm sure it has worked out somewhere, but I'm not recalling it. Dabo Swinney has worked out for Clemson. And the parallel's are fairly similar, He'd never been more than a position coach prior to taking over. If he's going to work out as well as Swinney, I guess I'd take that. Swinney, did have more than 10 years as an assistant at Alabama and Clemson. Wikipedia lists him as the WR and assistant Head Coach in 07 & 08. Then again, I'm sure playing in the NFL for 6 years adds a little to Hall's resume.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 13:26:25 GMT -8
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 27, 2017 13:26:25 GMT -8
I'm trying to remember the last "interim" coach who took over a program and actually did well. I recall the WVA guy who coached a win in their bowl game and was retained. That action was roundly criticized. Helton seemed like a bad idea for a team with the cachet of USC. I'm sure it has worked out somewhere, but I'm not recalling it. Bill Stewart was retained as head coach after West Virginia's 48-28 win over Oklahoma in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl. However, he was previously the head coach at VMI and had been an offensive coordinator in Winnipeg. (Mike Tomlin was one of his assistants at VMI.) Stewart went 9-4 three consecutive seasons, winning the Big East but losing on tiebreakers to Connecticut in 2010. After losing the Champs Sports Bowl, Dana Holgorsen was hired to serve as West Virginia's offensive coordinator with the understanding that Stewart would be promoted after the season to a job in the AD's office and Holgorsen would replace Stewart. Instead, Stewart attempted to conspire with the media to badmouth Holgorsen and then had an incident at a West Virginia casino. When both became public, Stewart resigned. Stewart died less than a year later. 9-4 was not good enough for West Virginia. Holgorsen went 10-3 his first season and won the Orange Bowl over Clemson 70-33. In the four years after, West Virginia went 30-25 with the best season West Virginia's 8-5 2015 campaign and Cactus Bowl Victory. Last year the Mountaineers went 10-3, finished second and played in the Russell Athletic Bowl, losing to an 8-4 Miami by 17. So,we can count this in the "interim head coach worked out" category?
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Post by NativeBeav on Oct 27, 2017 13:29:40 GMT -8
An if you keep hall what do you do with the coordinators? Last i heard they were on the chopping block. Does Hall have enough gravitas to go out and get a "good one" ....for a one year deal? Ummm, no And, no "good one" is coming with the HC on a one year. It's funny to me that Hall is truly a candidate to some on this board. And, to some who thought GA's cred was bad! You take him already here being here, on a lame duck staff, out of it I could not imagine any of the same people promoting another equally inexperienced coach. It's also equally puzzling to read posts from those ardent GA supporters that have given all the excuses and poo poo'd that GA had locker room problems and that 4-5 tweets showed how much the players loved him. Excitement, playing harder is what is supposed to happen. It didn't sell tix! It won't sell the type of recruits we need to land. Just because it was stifled under GA doesn't make Coach Hall a HC because players and coaches are now "free balling". It means the players have a bit of swagger back that was "beaten" out of them... As, I've stated... kudos to Coach/assts in this tough situation, but NO ONE on this staff is HC material. Nor should/ will any be kept... except maybe Hall. His situation might be similar to Brennan's... keep a good young coach with ties to the players to begin building a bond with the new staff. But... looking at just the complaints (and fully justified...) registered here, if any of the coordinators are retained we should be very worried about the new HC. With all due respect, 1111, you don't know that. You might be right, you might not. As they say, regarding outcome of any game, "that is why you play the game". I believe in the concept of giving people a chance to prove themselves. Maybe there is no way for CCH to do that in this situation, I just think it will be a sad day if he were to win a couple of the last four games, or, found a way to win out, that he is then summarily kicked to the curb, because he lacks the "pedigree" I am not in the tank for CH being the new HC, but I also recognize that (IMHO) the most likely way we end up with a great head coach is finding a "diamond in the rough", probably at a lower division school, that has the energy, charisma, attitude and plan to win on a bigger stage. Remember Chip Belly? As I recall, he didn't have any HC experience at a D1 school before being hired as the HC at Hole. How did that work out? Go watch again Glory Road - it can happen. And for all of you Negative Nancies that think no top drawer 5 star recruit will ever come to Corntucky, what makes you think the facilities, money, track record, etc. will attract a D1 coach with a proven track record? Our best bet may be to find an up and coming coach at one of the lower division schools, or a coordinator at another school with ties to OSU. Personally? I would rather have a truly hungry lower division coach looking to prove himself over a overqualified imposter any day - gee, have we ever made that mistake?
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 27, 2017 13:44:04 GMT -8
I'm trying to remember the last "interim" coach who took over a program and actually did well. I recall the WVA guy who coached a win in their bowl game and was retained. That action was roundly criticized. Helton seemed like a bad idea for a team with the cachet of USC. I'm sure it has worked out somewhere, but I'm not recalling it. Dabo Swinney has worked out for Clemson. And the parallel's are fairly similar, He'd never been more than a position coach prior to taking over. Dabo Swinney was one of the two assistant head coaches, a wide receivers coach, and head of recruiting. He was one of the best recruiters in the country. The first thing that he did was to fire the OC and promoted the quarterbacks' coach, Billy Napier, to OC. He forced out the DC, Vic Koenning, the next year. Ron Zook hired Koenning at Illinois. Koenning was the interim head coach at Illinois after Zook was hired, and he is now the DC at Troy. Swinney went 4-2 down the stretch after a 3-3 start. He was then promoted to head coach. Clemson limped along going 15-12 over the next two seasons. Swinney fired Napier, who is now the OC at Arizona State and hired Chad Morris, who is now the head coach at 5-2 SMU. In 2011, Clemson finally won the ACC but lost the Orange Bowl to West Virginia 70-33. Swinney fired the DC, Kevin Steele, who is now the DC at Auburn. Swinney hired Brent Venables away from Oklahoma to coach the defense. In 2012, Clemson went 11-2 the next year but lost to Florida State to finish second in the Atlantic. Clemson upset LSU in the Peach Bowl. In 2013, a similar story, Clemson lost to national champion Florida State to finish 11-2. Clemson upset Ohio State in the Orange Bowl. In 2014, Clemson lost to top 4 Florida State in overtime to finish 10-3. The Tigers beat the Sooners 40-6 in the Russell Athletic Bowl. Chad Morris quit to coach SMU. Tony Elliott, the RB coach, and Jeff Scott, the WR coach, became co-OCs. The next two years, Clemson finished second and first in the country. Scott is an interesting character because he was Swinney's assistant. When Swinney was promoted, Scott took over Swinney's job, as WR coach and head of recruiting. So, does Hall win four straight? Is Hall the next Swinney? I personally have not seen it yet.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 13:50:14 GMT -8
via mobile
jbjam likes this
Post by gnawitall on Oct 27, 2017 13:50:14 GMT -8
An if you keep hall what do you do with the coordinators? Last i heard they were on the chopping block. Does Hall have enough gravitas to go out and get a "good one" ....for a one year deal? Ummm, no so let's bring in a retread? Give him a chance. Why not? You can guarantee nothing with anyone else.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 27, 2017 13:50:22 GMT -8
Bill Stewart was retained as head coach after West Virginia's 48-28 win over Oklahoma in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl. However, he was previously the head coach at VMI and had been an offensive coordinator in Winnipeg. (Mike Tomlin was one of his assistants at VMI.) Stewart went 9-4 three consecutive seasons, winning the Big East but losing on tiebreakers to Connecticut in 2010. After losing the Champs Sports Bowl, Dana Holgorsen was hired to serve as West Virginia's offensive coordinator with the understanding that Stewart would be promoted after the season to a job in the AD's office and Holgorsen would replace Stewart. Instead, Stewart attempted to conspire with the media to badmouth Holgorsen and then had an incident at a West Virginia casino. When both became public, Stewart resigned. Stewart died less than a year later. 9-4 was not good enough for West Virginia. Holgorsen went 10-3 his first season and won the Orange Bowl over Clemson 70-33. In the four years after, West Virginia went 30-25 with the best season West Virginia's 8-5 2015 campaign and Cactus Bowl Victory. Last year the Mountaineers went 10-3, finished second and played in the Russell Athletic Bowl, losing to an 8-4 Miami by 17. So,we can count this in the "interim head coach worked out" category? Stewart was the interim head coach. He turned out to be a sociopath that had to be forced out under threat of firing. He was never as good as Rich Rod at West Virginia. Holgorsen was the coach-in-waiting. I just continued the story to completion. Holgorson has been more up-and-down than Stewart. Two 10-3 seasons. But two 7-6 seasons and a 4-8 season, as well.
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 27, 2017 14:02:02 GMT -8
I like Coach Hall. I like his energy, like seeing the way the guys interact with him - especially after hearing some of the comments leaking out of the program by current players about feeling discouraged, or feeling like no matter what they did, they were going to get yelled at. You can't play a good game with that kind of thing in your head, in your heart. Crazier things have happened than to take a former NFL player and make him a head coach in relatively short order. The comments during the game last night about it feeling like watching an NFL game resonated well with me. I'd prefer to see him be a defensive coordinator/assistant head coach with the Coach In Waiting tag though. Ask him to bring in a mentor that he respects with an established network to draw from to assemble a staff, but I'm not sure if that's a remotely realistic scenario. Hall has taken an unstable, difficult and emotional situation and calmed it down. He has put both the offense and defense back on the right track. He cut out the bulls%#t. Fun fact, Ryan Nall has had 43 rushing attempting in the last two games. Those two games have been arguably our best two games of the season. Ryan Nall has only rushed that many times in consecutive games one other time... Last year, Arizona+Oregon where he toted the rock 53 times for 297 yards and 5 TDs in two games. In 29 career games Nall suited up for, only twice has he can consecutive #1 RB touches. So that is what I mean when I say he ended the bulls%#t. He is putting the rock in our best player's hands. He isn't be cute, he is making this team just play football again. That is a win. The guy has energy, he has charisma, he is a leader for sure. I would not fret making him HC, just as long as we give him a solid assistant budget and he makes some really good hires to help him out.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 14:11:07 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by baseba1111 on Oct 27, 2017 14:11:07 GMT -8
And, no "good one" is coming with the HC on a one year. It's funny to me that Hall is truly a candidate to some on this board. And, to some who thought GA's cred was bad! You take him already here being here, on a lame duck staff, out of it I could not imagine any of the same people promoting another equally inexperienced coach. It's also equally puzzling to read posts from those ardent GA supporters that have given all the excuses and poo poo'd that GA had locker room problems and that 4-5 tweets showed how much the players loved him. Excitement, playing harder is what is supposed to happen. It didn't sell tix! It won't sell the type of recruits we need to land. Just because it was stifled under GA doesn't make Coach Hall a HC because players and coaches are now "free balling". It means the players have a bit of swagger back that was "beaten" out of them... As, I've stated... kudos to Coach/assts in this tough situation, but NO ONE on this staff is HC material. Nor should/ will any be kept... except maybe Hall. His situation might be similar to Brennan's... keep a good young coach with ties to the players to begin building a bond with the new staff. But... looking at just the complaints (and fully justified...) registered here, if any of the coordinators are retained we should be very worried about the new HC. With all due respect, 1111, you don't know that. You might be right, you might not. As they say, regarding outcome of any game, "that is why you play the game". I believe in the concept of giving people a chance to prove themselves. Maybe there is no way for CCH to do that in this situation, I just think it will be a sad day if he were to win a couple of the last four games, or, found a way to win out, that he is then summarily kicked to the curb, because he lacks the "pedigree" I am not in the tank for CH being the new HC, but I also recognize that (IMHO) the most likely way we end up with a great head coach is finding a "diamond in the rough", probably at a lower division school, that has the energy, charisma, attitude and plan to win on a bigger stage. Remember Chip Belly? As I recall, he didn't have any HC experience at a D1 school before being hired as the HC at Hole. How did that work out? Go watch again Glory Road - it can happen. And for all of you Negative Nancies that think no top drawer 5 star recruit will ever come to Corntucky, what makes you think the facilities, money, track record, etc. will attract a D1 coach with a proven track record? Our best bet may be to find an up and coming coach at one of the lower division schools, or a coordinator at another school with ties to OSU. Personally? I would rather have a truly hungry lower division coach looking to prove himself over a overqualified imposter any day - gee, have we ever made that mistake? You seem to be arguing with yourself. No one has said much about highly successful D1, "proven track record"... unless that means been a coordinator and HC for a time and has experienced coordinating/leading a staff. No matter the Ws or Ls CCH had zero of that. Being an experienced CEO is what a good HC is... being "friends" with the players is not always possible. The implementation of the CEOs plans and the closest interpersonal relationships are built with the position coaches. Coach Hall has that going for him and still coaches a position group. HC rarely do... they oversee coaches... their primary "relationships" are coach to coaches with the experience to delegate, prod, coddle, mandate, and handle internal strife. They also have experience in the hiring process... not only weeding out the BS recommendations, but the ability to hire the best available regardless of past friendships, etc. HCs get to be good cop or bad cop... but, do not deal with most players on a daily basis. Coach Hall lacks all that experience (at this time) to be a CEO of D1 football program. In that I'm not wrong. If he got more than a cursory interview and thanks I'd be totally surprised. If he got a leg up recommendation to the new HC to be retained, it'd help the transition and be deserved. And, from what I've witnessed during his tenure here, the title might be what coach Hall wants one day but he truly enjoys the day to day interactions with his position group. He might be a HC... someday... maybe at OSU... but if he's our next HC wet have bigger problems than I'd like to admit.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 14:20:02 GMT -8
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 27, 2017 14:20:02 GMT -8
The guy has energy, he has charisma, he is a leader for sure. I would not fret making him HC, just as long as we give him a solid assistant budget and he makes some really good hires to help him out.
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I expect if we put our thinking caps on we'd find an excellent mentor in Hall's past with experience as a successful head coach who might be willing to come in for a couple years helping Hall make the transition from AC/IHC to full-time head coach.
I expect there were some who wondered why the assistant VB coach was promoted to head coach when the coach he worked for had only one winning season in 11 years. That seems to be turning out OK.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 14:25:28 GMT -8
Post by usmc1958 on Oct 27, 2017 14:25:28 GMT -8
It's not realistic to think that Cory Hall could be our next HC. I'm not going to say he won't/can't/couldn't be an HC some day, or that he isn't doing a good job in the current situation, all-things-considered, but even his promotion to interim HC is kind of a head-scratcher. The AD isn't going to put a guy with so little experience in the most important job of an organization with a budget of tens of millions of dollars a year. Joe Kapp was hired as Cal's head coach in 1983. It was his first coaching job at any level. In 5 years he went 20–34–1. Experience is not always the best ingredient. Trust and the ability to lead (not all have it) are important also. I enjoyed watching Joe Kapp play and coach. He was one of the very few who could throw a basketball end over end. He preached; The Bear doesn't die! Similar to Leach the Pirate, a true character. I wouldn't mind at all if Coach Hall was given an opportunity to lead the Beavs. What a success story that would be. Coach GA had experience.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 14:38:36 GMT -8
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 27, 2017 14:38:36 GMT -8
So, Stewart won his BCS bowl game as an interim, and then went 9-4, 9-4 and 9-4 as the full-time head coach, and set the table for his successor to go 10-3, before making a stupid power play.
27-12 and leaving the pieces for a 10-3 season sounds successful to me.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 14:41:10 GMT -8
Post by nforkbeav on Oct 27, 2017 14:41:10 GMT -8
Successful people find a way to be successful no matter where you put them.
All these comparisons of interim coaches are meaningless, unless the interim head coach in the comparison was Corey Hall. While the circumstance, interim coach, may be similar the person, program, timing, etc... are not. In other words X does not equal Y.
Here's the deal. Coaches with "proven resume's" doesn't mean crap to me unless they've proven they can take a power 5 program who's underfunded as measured against it's competitors and make them a consistent winner. Are there even any out there with that track record?
Hall should not be dismissed as a serious candidate just because he was named interim coach. Are the fundamentals to succeed at OSU there? I've given my list of the fundamental skills/traits a coach will need to possess in order to have success here. Hall doesn't have them all, however there may not be anyone available who does.
Hall can bring a strong knowledge of the game, a high level of motivation to succeed, some continuity and familiarity which would allow him to avoid the mistakes and pitfalls of his predecessor. We can't afford to not hit the nail on the head in recruiting and he may be our best hope of constructing a strong class at this stage in the game. He has a much better idea of our current inventory and what's needed than anyone from the outside would have. His appeal to current players, and their dramatically improved performance is a very good sign given the circumstances.
Motivated, successful, driven, people find ways to succeed. It's all about the right fit, not necessarily the most experienced, or biggest name out there. The players seem to think it's a good fit and that shouldn't be overlooked.
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