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Post by alwaysorange on Oct 27, 2017 15:27:03 GMT -8
Coach Hall seems to be a guy with a lot of enthusiasm - that's great and has been missing on our sidelines for quite some time. But he has basically zilch in experience. I'd rather bring in a proven HC like Beau Baldwin that also has an exciting offense and possibly bring in Coach Hall as the DC. I would hate to lose his connections to the team but its a big step to be a D1 Coach when you have never been one let alone been a coordinator.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 15:39:07 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 15:39:07 GMT -8
Coach Hall seems to be a guy with a lot of enthusiasm - that's great and has been missing on our sidelines for quite some time. But he has basically zilch in experience. I'd rather bring in a proven HC like Beau Baldwin that also has an exciting offense and possibly bring in Coach Hall as the DC. I would hate to lose his connections to the team but its a big step to be a D1 Coach when you have never been one let alone been a coordinator. Worked for Clemson. Just because its not the common path doesn't mean it can't work. I like Baldwin too but what I am seeing from players/recruits on twitter and what I am seeing on the field I think I am coming to the conclusion that its a gamble I am happy to take. I do think that him having spent 6 years in the NFL where football is your 60 hour a week job makes it easier for me to not be concerned about his lack of experience. I am not afraid of taking a rarer path to find the guy. Hall is beginning to have that feel for me. Some guys don't need to be coordinators first (not really sure any of them really need to be, it just seems to the the typical progression).
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Post by alwaysorange on Oct 27, 2017 15:44:12 GMT -8
My one big concern - does he have enough exposure to bring in very good coordinators. You can jump up and down and high five people all game long but if you don't have people (coordinators and position coaches) making good decisions during practice or during the game then you are screwed,
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 15:51:12 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 15:51:12 GMT -8
My one big concern - does he have enough exposure to bring in very good coordinators. You can jump up and down and high five people all game long but if you don't have people (coordinators and position coaches) making good decisions during practice or during the game then you are screwed, And that is a valid concern. I know Mike Johnson (WR coach at Oregon) was on the Falcon's staff when Hall was playing in Atlanta. He could be a potential OC candidate. Also played with Marquand Manuel who is the Falcons current DC so while I wouldn't see Manual coming to Corvallis Hall might be able to use that connection. And that is just guys that immediately come to mind. I am sure having spent 6 years in the NFL he has developed some connections.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 15:53:35 GMT -8
Post by bennyorange on Oct 27, 2017 15:53:35 GMT -8
My one big concern - does he have enough exposure to bring in very good coordinators. You can jump up and down and high five people all game long but if you don't have people (coordinators and position coaches) making good decisions during practice or during the game then you are screwed, Hard to say but the guy has charisma and has been in the trenches and likely has seen all kinds of coaching styles as player - enough so that he has a good sense of what works and what doesn't. The difference between a coordinator and the head coach is the head coach is more like the CEO whereas the coordinator is more like a divisional VP. The role of the CEO is to establish the culture, discern the strategic direction from the Board, select those he/she feels are best suited to carry out the strategy, and then assess and manage the results and communications with key stakeholders. I really like the fact the he is a player who played at the highest level. I also like his communication style and his enthusiasm. He looks like he would fun to work with and set a high bar of expectations and effort. After watching the last two games and reading the thoughts on this board today I'm beginning to lean towards giving him a serious look. I wouldn't suggest just handing the keys to him but he HAS to at least be considered for the job along with whatever possible candidates they identify. I know one thing - if he isn't with us next year I'll likely keep track of him to see where he ends up and how he's doing. This man has breathed life back into a program that was on full life support with failing vital signs. Pretty damned miraculous if you ask me.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 15:56:17 GMT -8
Post by gobeavs92 on Oct 27, 2017 15:56:17 GMT -8
My one big concern - does he have enough exposure to bring in very good coordinators. You can jump up and down and high five people all game long but if you don't have people (coordinators and position coaches) making good decisions during practice or during the game then you are screwed, I would say the same thing about Baldwin! Who is he going to bring in? A bunch of FCS coaches he used to coach with? Is that ideal? I'm not saying Hall or Baldwin can't bring in quality assistants and/or coordinators but more, will they be able to? Yes Baldwin has had success at the FCS level but not the FBS level (this is his first season as just a coordinator in FBS). Along with the idea of quality assts and coordinators is the recruiting. It's a lot different recruiting guys to FCS EWU than to PAC 12 Oregon State (or any PAC 12 team for that matter). I don't want to rain on Hall's parade but he's competitive in his last 2 games against two teams that have struggled at times this season. He hasn't pulled out the win in either case. Is that a bad thing? No! He has them competing and that's great! But does that warrant him being the next HC here? I don't thinks so. There are a lot of knee jerk reactions it seems from fans. A coach losses a couple of games and he sucks! He wins a few and he's the guy! Ha ha. Go Beavs!
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 16:05:13 GMT -8
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 27, 2017 16:05:13 GMT -8
My one big concern - does he have enough exposure to bring in very good coordinators. You can jump up and down and high five people all game long but if you don't have people (coordinators and position coaches) making good decisions during practice or during the game then you are screwed, I think he's done far, far more than just jump and down and high-five people. Have we been well-prepared for both games? Clearly, yes. That means he's made good decisions in practice and in game-planning. Have we made good decisions in games? For the most part, yes. Nobody is perfect. I expect he'd keep one or two position coaches, and build his own staff. It's a P5 job. He would have lots of resumes to choose from.
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EOBeav
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 16:56:21 GMT -8
Post by EOBeav on Oct 27, 2017 16:56:21 GMT -8
I don't know enough about Div1 football to be able to say if Hall should be the next guy or not. However, if that actually takes place, I would think the following need to happen: - Pay him a base salary typical for other first year Div1 HC's, with incentives for post-season play.
- Two year contract. At most.
- Support and surround him with the best coordinators and assistants money can buy. You've got $12M to work with here, in addition to what you're already paying coaches, saved from CGA's non-buyout.
- Let him do his job. Including making mistakes.
- If at the end of the two years, we're on an upward trend, give him another two years with a salary bonus.
If that plays out the way I envision that it would, we get four years of solid leadership with the option to part ways in the middle if things go south.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 17:00:48 GMT -8
I don't know enough about Div1 football to be able to say if Hall should be the next guy or not. However, if that actually takes place, I would think the following need to happen: - Pay him a base salary typical for other first year Div1 HC's, with incentives for post-season play.
- Two year contract. At most.
- Support and surround him with the best coordinators and assistants money can buy. You've got $12M to work with here, in addition to what you're already paying coaches, saved from CGA's non-buyout.
- Let him do his job. Including making mistakes.
- If at the end of the two years, we're on an upward trend, give him another two years with a salary bonus.
If that plays out the way I envision that it would, we get four years of solid leadership with the option to part ways in the middle if things go south.
If you give a coach a 2 year deal you might as while not bother. They won't be able to recruit anyone and you have literally set them up for failure.
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Post by seastape on Oct 27, 2017 17:04:03 GMT -8
I don't know enough about Div1 football to be able to say if Hall should be the next guy or not. However, if that actually takes place, I would think the following need to happen: - Pay him a base salary typical for other first year Div1 HC's, with incentives for post-season play.
- Two year contract. At most.
- Support and surround him with the best coordinators and assistants money can buy. You've got $12M to work with here, in addition to what you're already paying coaches, saved from CGA's non-buyout.
- Let him do his job. Including making mistakes.
- If at the end of the two years, we're on an upward trend, give him another two years with a salary bonus.
If that plays out the way I envision that it would, we get four years of solid leadership with the option to part ways in the middle if things go south.
Disagree about the short term contract idea. Either you're going to hire the guy or not. The short-term contract sends the message that you don't really trust him to get the job done.
I would like to see how the rest of the season and recruiting goes. If Hall shows positive results, I like the idea of hiring him. I agree with his opinion that the team reflects its head coach. Hall has the drive and the refuse to back down attitude without the baggage of being a jerk to prove how tough he is. If he can recruit and sustain the strong results of the last two and a half weeks, I'd say ink him.
I am also starting to see signs that maybe the assistant coaches weren't so bad, after all. I think it was Andersen all along.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 18:26:41 GMT -8
Post by alwaysorange on Oct 27, 2017 18:26:41 GMT -8
I am being a devils advocate regarding the hiring of Hall as HC. He may very well be the best candidate out there but for those that think little coaching experience and NFL connections are enough - just remember not to many years ago when Colorado hired Jon Embree as coach and ne brought in a few NFL connections as coaches it was a disaster.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 18:39:47 GMT -8
Post by seastape on Oct 27, 2017 18:39:47 GMT -8
I am being a devils advocate regarding the hiring of Hall as HC. He may very well be the best candidate out there but for those that think little coaching experience and NFL connections are enough - just remember not to many years ago when Colorado hired Jon Embree as coach and ne brought in a few NFL connections as coaches it was a disaster. That is true of Embree, but for every type of coach that can be hired there is anecdotal evidence that he can be a disaster. The college ranks are littered with the skeletons of Power 5 coordinators who did not pan out, same with coaches who had D1A (but not Power 5) experience, coaches who had 1AA experience, and the list goes on. Heck, our own recent experience pointed to us getting a Power 5 head coach with division titles who did not pan out.
At some point, it's all just a crap shoot, with very few exceptions.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 27, 2017 18:50:00 GMT -8
Successful people find a way to be successful no matter where you put them. All these comparisons of interim coaches are meaningless, unless the interim head coach in the comparison was Corey Hall. While the circumstance, interim coach, may be similar the person, program, timing, etc... are not. In other words X does not equal Y. Here's the deal. Coaches with "proven resume's" doesn't mean crap to me unless they've proven they can take a power 5 program who's underfunded as measured against it's competitors and make them a consistent winner. Are there even any out there with that track record? Hall should not be dismissed as a serious candidate just because he was named interim coach. Are the fundamentals to succeed at OSU there? I've given my list of the fundamental skills/traits a coach will need to possess in order to have success here. Hall doesn't have them all, however there may not be anyone available who does. Hall can bring a strong knowledge of the game, a high level of motivation to succeed, some continuity and familiarity which would allow him to avoid the mistakes and pitfalls of his predecessor. We can't afford to not hit the nail on the head in recruiting and he may be our best hope of constructing a strong class at this stage in the game. He has a much better idea of our current inventory and what's needed than anyone from the outside would have. His appeal to current players, and their dramatically improved performance is a very good sign given the circumstances. Motivated, successful, driven, people find ways to succeed. It's all about the right fit, not necessarily the most experienced, or biggest name out there. The players seem to think it's a good fit and that shouldn't be overlooked. Actually experience does mean crap. That's why there are resumes and interviewers harp on what kind and how much experience a candidate has.
No one said experience is a guarantee, because there is none in the hiring process. But, knowledge of the game is a sure fire misnomer for a quality head coach. Coaches with extreme knowledge of the x's and o's are a dime a dozen and some would make terrible HCs. To be a HC is a completely different skill set than just having knowledge of the game, or knowing what we need to recruit. Any coach can take a 30 minute overview of our roster, watch a couple hours of tape and see what is needed.
Experience doesn't have to equal some huge set of successes at some other P5 school. There are many D1 schools just above, at, or just below our funding level with less of a fan base and administrative support. A guy at that type of school who has the right staffing connections, wants back on the west coast to HC in one of the top 3 conferences will take this job in a heartbeat. There will be no shortage of quality candidates.
The funny thing to me all those who see coach Hall as a viable candidate state the obvious... the frosting... the excitement... playing harder... being more prepared... etc. However, no one on here actually knows how much effect he truly has had on game day. And, from experience no one guy makes that much difference... except the guy who leaves. In these situations there is ALWAYS a uptick. And Coach Hall is the public voice of that, but he isn't carrying this banner alone. He calls no plays. He doesn't create any offensive sets. Coaches up only the DBs, and even admitted less so now with his additional duties. But, he has made several improper HC decisions in two games... which I would excuse to, yep, you guessed it, inexperience in game situations.
Have we looked better? I guess so. We've played harder, but against two fairly pedestrian (maybe the worst Furd team I've seen in some time) teams really... and if GA was coaching we'd all be saying we should have won both with some key coaching adjustments. 6 points and we are 2-3/3-5. BUT, we are not and bottom line we lost two winnable games. That is the reality and it's what can't happen at OSU. OSU needs to win games like that on a consistent basis. This job isn't a training ground to hopefully 'develop' a HC. It is a Pac12/D1/P5 job, and we need to expect a hiring process that reflects that. It's funny a lot of you have these high expectations for what recruiting and W's/L's should be, but Corey Hall is a viable candidate because we look better than a GA coached team? Really? That's all it takes? Well then that is good news cuz there is about 100,000 HS coaches and college assistants that qualify. (Sorry GA, your teams looked that bad!)
Again... look at the resume... is that the vitae of a HC at OSU? Is that a list of qualifications you would expect to see on candidates being interviewed for this job? I've posted on this like 4 times... I'll be done now! Not trying to be right... I just hold higher expectations for our next HC than the qualifications Coach Hall holds.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 19:38:49 GMT -8
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Post by spudbeaver on Oct 27, 2017 19:38:49 GMT -8
Joe Kapp was hired as Cal's head coach in 1983. It was his first coaching job at any level. In 5 years he went 20–34–1. Experience is not always the best ingredient. Trust and the ability to lead (not all have it) are important also. I enjoyed watching Joe Kapp play and coach. He was one of the very few who could throw a basketball end over end. He preached; The Bear doesn't die! Similar to Leach the Pirate, a true character. I wouldn't mind at all if Coach Hall was given an opportunity to lead the Beavs. What a success story that would be. Coach GA had experience. Funny.
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 20:31:07 GMT -8
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 27, 2017 20:31:07 GMT -8
I don't know enough about Div1 football to be able to say if Hall should be the next guy or not. However, if that actually takes place, I would think the following need to happen: - Pay him a base salary typical for other first year Div1 HC's, with incentives for post-season play.
- Two year contract. At most.
- Support and surround him with the best coordinators and assistants money can buy. You've got $12M to work with here, in addition to what you're already paying coaches, saved from CGA's non-buyout.
- Let him do his job. Including making mistakes.
- If at the end of the two years, we're on an upward trend, give him another two years with a salary bonus.
If that plays out the way I envision that it would, we get four years of solid leadership with the option to part ways in the middle if things go south.
If you give a coach a 2 year deal you might as while not bother. They won't be able to recruit anyone and you have literally set them up for failure. In that case, give him a 4-5 year deal, but with a very OSU favorable buyout after 2 years. They could still tout it as a 4-5 year deal.
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