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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 27, 2017 22:34:38 GMT -8
Successful people find a way to be successful no matter where you put them. All these comparisons of interim coaches are meaningless, unless the interim head coach in the comparison was Corey Hall. While the circumstance, interim coach, may be similar the person, program, timing, etc... are not. In other words X does not equal Y. Here's the deal. Coaches with "proven resume's" doesn't mean crap to me unless they've proven they can take a power 5 program who's underfunded as measured against it's competitors and make them a consistent winner. Are there even any out there with that track record? Hall should not be dismissed as a serious candidate just because he was named interim coach. Are the fundamentals to succeed at OSU there? I've given my list of the fundamental skills/traits a coach will need to possess in order to have success here. Hall doesn't have them all, however there may not be anyone available who does. Hall can bring a strong knowledge of the game, a high level of motivation to succeed, some continuity and familiarity which would allow him to avoid the mistakes and pitfalls of his predecessor. We can't afford to not hit the nail on the head in recruiting and he may be our best hope of constructing a strong class at this stage in the game. He has a much better idea of our current inventory and what's needed than anyone from the outside would have. His appeal to current players, and their dramatically improved performance is a very good sign given the circumstances. Motivated, successful, driven, people find ways to succeed. It's all about the right fit, not necessarily the most experienced, or biggest name out there. The players seem to think it's a good fit and that shouldn't be overlooked. Actually experience does mean crap. That's why there are resumes and interviewers harp on what kind and how much experience a candidate has.
No one said experience is a guarantee, because there is none in the hiring process. But, knowledge of the game is a sure fire misnomer for a quality head coach. Coaches with extreme knowledge of the x's and o's are a dime a dozen and some would make terrible HCs. To be a HC is a completely different skill set than just having knowledge of the game, or knowing what we need to recruit. Any coach can take a 30 minute overview of our roster, watch a couple hours of tape and see what is needed.
Experience doesn't have to equal some huge set of successes at some other P5 school. There are many D1 schools just above, at, or just below our funding level with less of a fan base and administrative support. A guy at that type of school who has the right staffing connections, wants back on the west coast to HC in one of the top 3 conferences will take this job in a heartbeat. There will be no shortage of quality candidates.
The funny thing to me all those who see coach Hall as a viable candidate state the obvious... the frosting... the excitement... playing harder... being more prepared... etc. However, no one on here actually knows how much effect he truly has had on game day. And, from experience no one guy makes that much difference... except the guy who leaves. In these situations there is ALWAYS a uptick. And Coach Hall is the public voice of that, but he isn't carrying this banner alone. He calls no plays. He doesn't create any offensive sets. Coaches up only the DBs, and even admitted less so now with his additional duties. But, he has made several improper HC decisions in two games... which I would excuse to, yep, you guessed it, inexperience in game situations.
Have we looked better? I guess so. We've played harder, but against two fairly pedestrian (maybe the worst Furd team I've seen in some time) teams really... and if GA was coaching we'd all be saying we should have won both with some key coaching adjustments. 6 points and we are 2-3/3-5. BUT, we are not and bottom line we lost two winnable games. That is the reality and it's what can't happen at OSU. OSU needs to win games like that on a consistent basis. This job isn't a training ground to hopefully 'develop' a HC. It is a Pac12/D1/P5 job, and we need to expect a hiring process that reflects that. It's funny a lot of you have these high expectations for what recruiting and W's/L's should be, but Corey Hall is a viable candidate because we look better than a GA coached team? Really? That's all it takes? Well then that is good news cuz there is about 100,000 HS coaches and college assistants that qualify. (Sorry GA, your teams looked that bad!)
Again... look at the resume... is that the vitae of a HC at OSU? Is that a list of qualifications you would expect to see on candidates being interviewed for this job? I've posted on this like 4 times... I'll be done now! Not trying to be right... I just hold higher expectations for our next HC than the qualifications Coach Hall holds.
I think Stanford is a good team, but I think that the Cardinal played awful yesterday. Using analytics, it was the worst that Stanford has played against Oregon State, since the Beavers' last win in the series in 2009.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 27, 2017 22:57:20 GMT -8
Or it's the best Oregon State has played against Stanford since '99?
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 27, 2017 22:57:46 GMT -8
Perhaps it played poorly because our defense played well. That is possible, right?
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Hall In
Oct 27, 2017 23:14:17 GMT -8
Post by nforkbeav on Oct 27, 2017 23:14:17 GMT -8
Successful people find a way to be successful no matter where you put them. All these comparisons of interim coaches are meaningless, unless the interim head coach in the comparison was Corey Hall. While the circumstance, interim coach, may be similar the person, program, timing, etc... are not. In other words X does not equal Y. Here's the deal. Coaches with "proven resume's" doesn't mean crap to me unless they've proven they can take a power 5 program who's underfunded as measured against it's competitors and make them a consistent winner. Are there even any out there with that track record? Hall should not be dismissed as a serious candidate just because he was named interim coach. Are the fundamentals to succeed at OSU there? I've given my list of the fundamental skills/traits a coach will need to possess in order to have success here. Hall doesn't have them all, however there may not be anyone available who does. Hall can bring a strong knowledge of the game, a high level of motivation to succeed, some continuity and familiarity which would allow him to avoid the mistakes and pitfalls of his predecessor. We can't afford to not hit the nail on the head in recruiting and he may be our best hope of constructing a strong class at this stage in the game. He has a much better idea of our current inventory and what's needed than anyone from the outside would have. His appeal to current players, and their dramatically improved performance is a very good sign given the circumstances. Motivated, successful, driven, people find ways to succeed. It's all about the right fit, not necessarily the most experienced, or biggest name out there. The players seem to think it's a good fit and that shouldn't be overlooked. Actually experience does mean crap. That's why there are resumes and interviewers harp on what kind and how much experience a candidate has.
No one said experience is a guarantee, because there is none in the hiring process. But, knowledge of the game is a sure fire misnomer for a quality head coach. Coaches with extreme knowledge of the x's and o's are a dime a dozen and some would make terrible HCs. To be a HC is a completely different skill set than just having knowledge of the game, or knowing what we need to recruit. Any coach can take a 30 minute overview of our roster, watch a couple hours of tape and see what is needed.
Experience doesn't have to equal some huge set of successes at some other P5 school. There are many D1 schools just above, at, or just below our funding level with less of a fan base and administrative support. A guy at that type of school who has the right staffing connections, wants back on the west coast to HC in one of the top 3 conferences will take this job in a heartbeat. There will be no shortage of quality candidates.
The funny thing to me all those who see coach Hall as a viable candidate state the obvious... the frosting... the excitement... playing harder... being more prepared... etc. However, no one on here actually knows how much effect he truly has had on game day. And, from experience no one guy makes that much difference... except the guy who leaves. In these situations there is ALWAYS a uptick. And Coach Hall is the public voice of that, but he isn't carrying this banner alone. He calls no plays. He doesn't create any offensive sets. Coaches up only the DBs, and even admitted less so now with his additional duties. But, he has made several improper HC decisions in two games... which I would excuse to, yep, you guessed it, inexperience in game situations.
Have we looked better? I guess so. We've played harder, but against two fairly pedestrian (maybe the worst Furd team I've seen in some time) teams really... and if GA was coaching we'd all be saying we should have won both with some key coaching adjustments. 6 points and we are 2-3/3-5. BUT, we are not and bottom line we lost two winnable games. That is the reality and it's what can't happen at OSU. OSU needs to win games like that on a consistent basis. This job isn't a training ground to hopefully 'develop' a HC. It is a Pac12/D1/P5 job, and we need to expect a hiring process that reflects that. It's funny a lot of you have these high expectations for what recruiting and W's/L's should be, but Corey Hall is a viable candidate because we look better than a GA coached team? Really? That's all it takes? Well then that is good news cuz there is about 100,000 HS coaches and college assistants that qualify. (Sorry GA, your teams looked that bad!)
Again... look at the resume... is that the vitae of a HC at OSU? Is that a list of qualifications you would expect to see on candidates being interviewed for this job? I've posted on this like 4 times... I'll be done now! Not trying to be right... I just hold higher expectations for ou r next HC than the qualifications Coach Hall holds.
What we don't know is, who are the coaches interested in the job and legitimately likely to take it if offered. If we did, then we could assess and compare resumes, but as you clearly state resumes are no guarantee. In fact, truth be told, resumes are as much about the AD protecting the AD than a predictor of success. Hire a guy with a good resume, things don't go well, nobody faults you. Hire a guy with a thin lackluster resume, things don't go well, it's your(AD) neck. There's no science to hiring coaches. David Shaw had no HC experience prior to becoming Stanford's HC. He's done alright. The bottom line is, we are 1-7 and the coach who has given us two close losses seems like a hero. That unfortunately is the state of our program right now.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 27, 2017 23:31:45 GMT -8
Getting a little long to quote...
After playing for Furd, David Shaw was a long term NFL assistant, college asst, and an OC for 4 years at Stanford under Harbaugh. Pretty much a known quantity.
If coach Hall had that pedigree I'd be seeing things differently.
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EOBeav
Freshman
Posts: 499
Grad Year: 1989, 2002
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Hall In
Oct 28, 2017 8:17:02 GMT -8
Post by EOBeav on Oct 28, 2017 8:17:02 GMT -8
If coach Hall had that pedigree I'd be seeing things differently. If Coach Hall had that pedigree he'd be getting a lot more looks than just from Oregon State.
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Hall In
Oct 28, 2017 10:28:16 GMT -8
Post by LJG888 on Oct 28, 2017 10:28:16 GMT -8
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jbjam
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Post by jbjam on Oct 28, 2017 10:42:00 GMT -8
With all due respect, 1111, you don't know that. You might be right, you might not. As they say, regarding outcome of any game, "that is why you play the game". I believe in the concept of giving people a chance to prove themselves. Maybe there is no way for CCH to do that in this situation, I just think it will be a sad day if he were to win a couple of the last four games, or, found a way to win out, that he is then summarily kicked to the curb, because he lacks the "pedigree" I am not in the tank for CH being the new HC, but I also recognize that (IMHO) the most likely way we end up with a great head coach is finding a "diamond in the rough", probably at a lower division school, that has the energy, charisma, attitude and plan to win on a bigger stage. Remember Chip Belly? As I recall, he didn't have any HC experience at a D1 school before being hired as the HC at Hole. How did that work out? Go watch again Glory Road - it can happen. And for all of you Negative Nancies that think no top drawer 5 star recruit will ever come to Corntucky, what makes you think the facilities, money, track record, etc. will attract a D1 coach with a proven track record? Our best bet may be to find an up and coming coach at one of the lower division schools, or a coordinator at another school with ties to OSU. Personally? I would rather have a truly hungry lower division coach looking to prove himself over a overqualified imposter any day - gee, have we ever made that mistake? You seem to be arguing with yourself. No one has said much about highly successful D1, "proven track record"... unless that means been a coordinator and HC for a time and has experienced coordinating/leading a staff. No matter the Ws or Ls CCH had zero of that. Being an experienced CEO is what a good HC is... being "friends" with the players is not always possible. The implementation of the CEOs plans and the closest interpersonal relationships are built with the position coaches. Coach Hall has that going for him and still coaches a position group. HC rarely do... they oversee coaches... their primary "relationships" are coach to coaches with the experience to delegate, prod, coddle, mandate, and handle internal strife. They also have experience in the hiring process... not only weeding out the BS recommendations, but the ability to hire the best available regardless of past friendships, etc. HCs get to be good cop or bad cop... but, do not deal with most players on a daily basis. Coach Hall lacks all that experience (at this time) to be a CEO of D1 football program. In that I'm not wrong. If he got more than a cursory interview and thanks I'd be totally surprised. If he got a leg up recommendation to the new HC to be retained, it'd help the transition and be deserved. And, from what I've witnessed during his tenure here, the title might be what coach Hall wants one day but he truly enjoys the day to day interactions with his position group. He might be a HC... someday... maybe at OSU... but if he's our next HC wet have bigger problems than I'd like to admit. IMO as someone who oversees 140+ ppl I disagree with this. There are many ways to be an effective leader, some people can handle more. Experience does not always mean someone is more qualified, nor does a lack of experience mean someone is incapable and not the best choice. I strongly believe people people get promoted to their level of failure. Success at a lower position doesn’t mean you’ll be good at the next, it just means you could handle your last. How many OCs fail when promoted, too many. Management while a needed skill that can sink a program *the last guy* (and easy one to spot if people have) is clearly not the primary skill it takes to win as a HC. A ceo can be successful even if they aren’t the best manager as long as the know this and hire someone to fill that void. I’ve worked for people that are horrible managers I prefer because they have a strong vision, intangibles and they hire others to cover their weeknesses. Is Hall the guy? Don’t think anyone can know yet, but he is building a case for himself. Think it be silly to ignore him based off a lack of upper management on his resume.
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Hall In
Oct 28, 2017 13:32:58 GMT -8
Post by ostate on Oct 28, 2017 13:32:58 GMT -8
I like Coach Hall. I like his energy, like seeing the way the guys interact with him - especially after hearing some of the comments leaking out of the program by current players about feeling discouraged, or feeling like no matter what they did, they were going to get yelled at. You can't play a good game with that kind of thing in your head, in your heart. Crazier things have happened than to take a former NFL player and make him a head coach in relatively short order. The comments during the game last night about it feeling like watching an NFL game resonated well with me. I'd prefer to see him be a defensive coordinator/assistant head coach with the Coach In Waiting tag though. Ask him to bring in a mentor that he respects with an established network to draw from to assemble a staff, but I'm not sure if that's a remotely realistic scenario. Name one D1/P5 HC hire with Hall's inexperience level? Dabo Swinney... Actually, since Hall had time in the NFL, I would give the edge of experience to Hall...
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Hall In
Oct 28, 2017 13:52:41 GMT -8
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 28, 2017 13:52:41 GMT -8
Name one D1/P5 HC hire with Hall's inexperience level? Dabo Swinney... Actually, since Hall had time in the NFL, I would give the edge of experience to Hall... WHAT? LOL Dabo had spent 15 years at two of the best college programs. He was a well known asst expected to get a HC job. Not many outside this area would know Hall without looking him up. Dabo was at Bama for 5-6 years, Clemson for 8 and a coordinator before being the interim. A low level NFL assistant had zero to do with the experience Sweeney had.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2017 14:05:57 GMT -8
Dabo Swinney... Actually, since Hall had time in the NFL, I would give the edge of experience to Hall... WHAT? LOL Dabo had spent 15 years at two of the best college programs. He was a well known asst expected to get a HC job. Not many outside this area would know Hall without looking him up. Dabo was at Bama for 5-6 years, Clemson for 8 and a coordinator before being the interim. A low level NFL assistant had zero to do with the experience Sweeney had. Uh, no he wasn't. Swinney was NOT coordinator before he got the job. His first act as interim coach was to fire the Offensive Coordinator. You are correct that he had more years of coaching experience but are incorrect on virtually everything else you claimed. It was very controversial when he got the job over 2 other assistants who had been head coaches and many people didn't think he should have gotten the permanent job. It was a very unpopular hire. Your history of Swinney is incorrect. I think the argument is that spending 6 years playing in the NFL is equal to years coaching a position at the college level. And I think that is a fair argument, every player in the NFL does many of the things position coaches in college do on a daily basis.
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Hall In
Oct 28, 2017 14:07:14 GMT -8
Post by ostate on Oct 28, 2017 14:07:14 GMT -8
Dabo Swinney... Actually, since Hall had time in the NFL, I would give the edge of experience to Hall... WHAT? LOL Dabo had spent 15 years at two of the best college programs. He was a well known asst expected to get a HC job. Not many outside this area would know Hall without looking him up. Dabo was at Bama for 5-6 years, Clemson for 8 and a coordinator before being the interim. A low level NFL assistant had zero to do with the experience Sweeney had. Hilarious...
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Hall In
Oct 28, 2017 14:41:27 GMT -8
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 28, 2017 14:41:27 GMT -8
WHAT? LOL Dabo had spent 15 years at two of the best college programs. He was a well known asst expected to get a HC job. Not many outside this area would know Hall without looking him up. Dabo was at Bama for 5-6 years, Clemson for 8 and a coordinator before being the interim. A low level NFL assistant had zero to do with the experience Sweeney had. Uh, no he wasn't. Swinney was NOT coordinator before he got the job. His first act as interim coach was to fire the Offensive Coordinator. You are correct that he had more years of coaching experience but are incorrect on virtually everything else you claimed. It was very controversial when he got the job over 2 other assistants who had been head coaches and many people didn't think he should have gotten the permanent job. It was a very unpopular hire. Your history of Swinney is incorrect. I think the argument is that spending 6 years playing in the NFL is equal to years coaching a position at the college level. And I think that is a fair argument, every player in the NFL does many of the things position coaches in college do on a daily basis. Wrong... on "virtually everything else"... about? What a clueless post. If you didn't know just look it up. Bama '93-95 GA, '96 WR/TE, '97 TE, '98-00 WR Clemson'03-06 WR/recruiting coord., '07-08 WR/assoc HC, '08 OC/interim HC As far as the OC... timing is correct on your part. My point is he was one... and comparing Hall to Dabo is apples to figs. Who said anything about controversy or not. Was never the point... ANYWHERE in this thread. Nor is controversy at Clemson any issue in coaching credentials.
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Hall In
Oct 28, 2017 14:43:21 GMT -8
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 28, 2017 14:43:21 GMT -8
WHAT? LOL Dabo had spent 15 years at two of the best college programs. He was a well known asst expected to get a HC job. Not many outside this area would know Hall without looking him up. Dabo was at Bama for 5-6 years, Clemson for 8 and a coordinator before being the interim. A low level NFL assistant had zero to do with the experience Sweeney had. Hilarious... You are... nice come back. When you have little knowledge those moronic comebacks are classics!
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Hall In
Oct 28, 2017 14:45:47 GMT -8
Post by ostate on Oct 28, 2017 14:45:47 GMT -8
You are... nice come back. When you have little knowledge those moronic comebacks are classics! Classic, really shows how little you know...
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