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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 14:39:23 GMT -8
No, actually this is literally the first time I have seen that question. Based on the evidence Duke had at the time I think they did respond correctly. Sorry but you can't have your athletes representing your school while under investigation for rape. Not being able to trust the police/DA is a different conversation. Now (I've answered your question from a now locked thread that I had never read prior) explain exactly what I am wrong about with regards to extending the deadline? I understand that in coaching most people aren't even gonna apply till they are offered the job but if Smith knew who he wanted and that guy was saying yes I don't see any reason why they wouldn't have submitted an application. To me this is an indication that at least some of the coaching positions remain in doubt. And they aren't simply waiting for someone to play their bowl game. So if someone accused multiple football players of rape (with no evidence of such, whatsoever, merely the accusation of) we should shut down the whole football program, in the mean time? Is that what you're saying? Because that's what you're agreeing with (above). Now you are putting words in my mouth. If the vast majority of the football team had a party and someone at that party claimed multiple members of the team raped her and the police indicated they were going to press charges on the football team. If it was as bad as that situation looked. Yep. If the whole team was under investigation. Shut it down. Players who are under investigation for rape should not be suiting up for OSU on Saturday afternoons. Which is what happened at Duke. The police didn't tell Duke their was no evidence and Duke is not an investigator. You claim their was no evidence but are using hindsight to make that claim. Players were indicted so from Duke's perspective their was evidence. That said, as Duke did (after the incident) I would fight to get that year of eligibility back for everyone on the team (and for them to be able to transfer without penalty if they so chose) once we find out it was a woman lying. Now for the bigger question, can you name a single other time when anything close to what happened at Duke has happened anywhere else? Because I can name many situations where the woman wasn't lying so if I am gonna make an error I'd rather make the error based on the odds and the odds say the woman isn't lying. And since I am back on this topic, I am sure Riley would handle it different today, I know Brenda Tracy has no issues with Riley, I am sure Riley wishing he'd handled it differently, and I don't hate Riley as a person. I'd simply prefer not having a coach that handled that incident so casually (and IMO it was handled casually) on staff. I believe I am entitled to that opinion. That said, Riley is hired. It is what it is. I hope he helps Smith, I just would have preferred OSU leave the Riley era where it belongs (the past). Its not irrational to feel that way. Oh and for the guy that tried to insult my opinion as just some lame millennial take on the issue, I am 38, I believe that puts me between millennial and generation X. My last name is Young, that is where my name comes from.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 14:49:40 GMT -8
Now you are putting words in my mouth. If the vast majority of the football team had a party and someone at that party claimed multiple members of the team raped her and the police indicated they were going to press charges on the football team. If it was as bad as that situation looked. Yep. If the whole team was under investigation. Shut it down. Players who are under investigation for rape should not be suiting up for OSU on Saturday afternoons. Which is what happened at Duke. The police didn't tell Duke their was no evidence and Duke is not an investigator. You claim their was no evidence but are using hindsight to make that claim. Players were indicted so from Duke's perspective their was evidence. So, just to break it down. All that's needed (in your own mind) is indictments and the school should consider you as good as guilty and force the coach to resign. Glad we could get that cleared up. Did I say that? You don't have a right to play college sports. Duke fought to get the eligibility back for those players (and succeeded) so every player got to play Lacrosse just as many years as if Duke hadn't shut the team down. Yes, indictments are enough for me not to want guys playing while under indictment. Absolutely. That in no way means I consider indictment to be the same as guilt. Would you really want to walk into Reser on a Saturday in October to root for a team full of players under indictment/serious investigation for rape? Because that is what you are saying.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 14:52:11 GMT -8
Lol, I know who Brian Banks is. Guess what he was convicted, so what should USC have done? Try to get him work release to play there? Now, if we want to discuss the problems in the American justice system we can but that is a different discussion. But again, that is NOT the Duke case, nothing like it. That was an individual person, not the majority of a team. You seem to believe false accusations are the norm (as opposed to the exception) and we should let people play while under investigation, I disagree. That is your opinion. I wouldn't want to watch a team full of people accused of rape playing on Saturday. I just wouldn't.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 15:02:33 GMT -8
Lol, I know who Brian Banks is. Guess what he was convicted, so what should USC have done? Try to get him work release to play there? Now, if we want to discuss the problems in the American justice system we can but that is a different discussion. But again, that is NOT the Duke case, nothing like it. That was an individual person, not the majority of a team. You seem to believe false accusations are the norm (as opposed to the exception) and we should let people play while under investigation, I disagree. That is your opinion. I wouldn't want to watch a team full of people accused of rape playing on Saturday. I just wouldn't. You didn't comment on the link below that (a completely different case). How come? 2 reasons: 1, the link went to page that wouldn't load for me so I had to do some google searching (And still am) 2, I really have little interest in continuing this discussion; I've given my opinion and been pretty consistent with it. Based on what I have found on google so far, it was 2 players (again not the majority of a team at a party) and they were suspended from their team and lost their scholarships. Again, I am gonna side with the school for suspending them, I don't want to watch players who are under investigation (I've already made this clear), I disagree with revoking the scholarship till more details about the incident come out and believe the school should petition for these 2 players to get their eligibility back. That said, I do not believe a conviction is always needed to revoke a scholarship, the Brenda Tracy case ended with no charges, I'd still think those guys should have never been allowed to play at OSU. If a similar case (to Brenda Tracy) occurred in 2017, do you believe those players should be allowed to play at Oregon State simply because Tracy decides not to testify?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 15:03:46 GMT -8
Anyway, that's not what THIS thread is even about. No kidding, you are the one that brought it up, not me. So a little weak to suddenly make that claim but fair enough. Maybe I am wrong but I thought the majority of the Duke team was at the party (I am going entirely off memory here). If I am wrong on that detail than my opinion might change about cancelling the season.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 15:13:37 GMT -8
No kidding, you are the one that brought it up, not me. So a little weak to suddenly make that claim but fair enough. Maybe I am wrong but I thought the majority of the Duke team was at the party. If I am wrong on that detail than my opinion might change about cancelling the season. The coach wasn't fired and the season cancelled for "having a party." You seem to also have completely ignored the (Duke) coach fired part (above). Like that's just collateral damage .. oh well. A girl was raped at a party that the majority of the team was attending. I don't care about the Duke coach part so yes, I did ignore it. I have no interest in why Duke decided to fire the coach. Coaches get fired for all kinds of reasons. I don't care enough to do any research into why he was fired because I simply don't care.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 15:18:23 GMT -8
A girl was raped at a party that the majority of the team was attending. I don't care about the Duke coach part so yes, I did ignore it. I have no interest in why Duke decided to fire the coach. Coaches get fired for all kinds of reasons. I don't care enough to do any research into why he was fired because I simply don't care. No, she wasn't. Are you seriously that ignorant? Even now? Seriously, I said I was going off memory and if I was wrong it might change my opinion. Sorry I don't remember every detail of an incident I barely followed since I am no way a fan of Lacrosse much less Duke Lacrosse. You asked a question about how it was handled, I went off memory (as I said) about what happened. I'm not here to do a bunch of research to discuss a topic I barely care about (and barely care about Duke Lacrosse is giving more credit than it deserves because I don't care at all about it). But if it makes you feel better to call me ignorant, cool. I am happy for you, you win the internet. And I know she wasn't actually raped (I think me having this knowledge is quite obvious from every previous response), I should have said alleged rape; the alleged rape did occur at a party, correct? But I guess me saying rape instead of alleged rape allows you to feel like you won the debate. So I'm cool with it. Would rather talk about assistants anyway.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 9, 2017 15:34:03 GMT -8
So if someone accused multiple football players of rape (with no evidence of such, whatsoever, merely the accusation of) we should shut down the whole football program, in the mean time? Is that what you're saying? Because that's what you're agreeing with (above). Now you are putting words in my mouth. If the vast majority of the football team had a party and someone at that party claimed multiple members of the team raped her and the police indicated they were going to press charges on the football team. If it was as bad as that situation looked. Yep. If the whole team was under investigation. Shut it down. Players who are under investigation for rape should not be suiting up for OSU on Saturday afternoons. Which is what happened at Duke. The police didn't tell Duke their was no evidence and Duke is not an investigator. You claim their was no evidence but are using hindsight to make that claim. Players were indicted so from Duke's perspective their was evidence. That said, as Duke did (after the incident) I would fight to get that year of eligibility back for everyone on the team (and for them to be able to transfer without penalty if they so chose) once we find out it was a woman lying. Now for the bigger question, can you name a single other time when anything close to what happened at Duke has happened anywhere else? Because I can name many situations where the woman wasn't lying so if I am gonna make an error I'd rather make the error based on the odds and the odds say the woman isn't lying. And since I am back on this topic, I am sure Riley would handle it different today, I know Brenda Tracy has no issues with Riley, I am sure Riley wishing he'd handled it differently, and I don't hate Riley as a person. I'd simply prefer not having a coach that handled that incident so casually (and IMO it was handled casually) on staff. I believe I am entitled to that opinion. That said, Riley is hired. It is what it is. I hope he helps Smith, I just would have preferred OSU leave the Riley era where it belongs (the past). Its not irrational to feel that way. Oh and for the guy that tried to insult my opinion as just some lame millennial take on the issue, I am 38, I believe that puts me between millennial and generation X. My last name is Young, that is where my name comes from. Dude, if you were paying attention you would have realized that Riley suspended those players. Dandridge was set to be our starting tailback and the general public was all in a tizzy because Riley was going to start some 160 pound true freshman named Simonton. The event and the bulk of the investigation took place during the summer, the players were never charged apparently. How long do you suspend them, 16/17 years? This is not to exhonorate them or ignore what they did, but should everyone accused be permanently suspended until a DA says some years later they will never prosecute? Times have changed, Ms. Tracy and Coach Riley are actually friends. If this were to happen today the punishment would likely be much different. As far as the deadline extension goes.... Coach Smith is looking at 10 assistant coach hires, as well as a lot of support staff, it probably won't be done for a month or so, might as well keep accepting resumes from the coaches that just found out they might be looking for jobs in the last few days.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 15:34:51 GMT -8
It's clear that all you need is an accusation and that should be good enough to take action. If that is what you want to believe fine. I honestly don't care. I already said you won. I am ignorant, you are brilliant. You are right, I am wrong. I apologize for ever engaging you (and your vastly stronger intellect and moral standing) in such a debate. I am a fool. Hell, I'll even take the blame from bringing a topic from a locked thread up, its all on me, you are an amazing human, I am scum. You good? Can we get back to talking about assistant coaches now?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 15:38:45 GMT -8
Now you are putting words in my mouth. If the vast majority of the football team had a party and someone at that party claimed multiple members of the team raped her and the police indicated they were going to press charges on the football team. If it was as bad as that situation looked. Yep. If the whole team was under investigation. Shut it down. Players who are under investigation for rape should not be suiting up for OSU on Saturday afternoons. Which is what happened at Duke. The police didn't tell Duke their was no evidence and Duke is not an investigator. You claim their was no evidence but are using hindsight to make that claim. Players were indicted so from Duke's perspective their was evidence. That said, as Duke did (after the incident) I would fight to get that year of eligibility back for everyone on the team (and for them to be able to transfer without penalty if they so chose) once we find out it was a woman lying. Now for the bigger question, can you name a single other time when anything close to what happened at Duke has happened anywhere else? Because I can name many situations where the woman wasn't lying so if I am gonna make an error I'd rather make the error based on the odds and the odds say the woman isn't lying. And since I am back on this topic, I am sure Riley would handle it different today, I know Brenda Tracy has no issues with Riley, I am sure Riley wishing he'd handled it differently, and I don't hate Riley as a person. I'd simply prefer not having a coach that handled that incident so casually (and IMO it was handled casually) on staff. I believe I am entitled to that opinion. That said, Riley is hired. It is what it is. I hope he helps Smith, I just would have preferred OSU leave the Riley era where it belongs (the past). Its not irrational to feel that way. Oh and for the guy that tried to insult my opinion as just some lame millennial take on the issue, I am 38, I believe that puts me between millennial and generation X. My last name is Young, that is where my name comes from. Dude, if you were paying attention you would have realized that Riley suspended those players. Dandridge was set to be our starting tailback and the general public was all in a tizzy because Riley was going to start some 160 pound true freshman named Simonton. The event and the bulk of the investigation took place during the summer, the players were never charged apparently. How long do you suspend them, 16/17 years? This is not to exhonorate them or ignore what they did, but should everyone accused be permanently suspended until a DA says some years later they will never prosecute? Times have changed, Ms. Tracy and Coach Riley are actually friends. If this were to happen today the punishment would likely be much different. As far as the deadline extension goes.... Coach Smith is looking at 10 assistant coach hires, as well as a lot of support staff, it probably won't be done for a month or so, might as well keep accepting resumes from the coaches that just found out they might be looking for jobs in the last few days. Okay, I am so over this stupid conversation. I am well aware he was suspended. My opinion is such players should have never been allowed to play at OSU again. That is my opinion. Charges or no charges. The evidence of what happened was sufficient to remove them from the team in my opinion. I also already granted my knowledge that Tracy and Riley are friends, I also granted that Riley probably would have handled it differently today. I still would prefer not having someone that handled it the way he did on staff. And I still don't think that is an irrational position. You disagree, great. As I said, I am wrong, you guys are all right. I apologize for bringing this stupid topic back up (I am taking the blame for everything including bringing a locked topic into another thread by stealing another posters screen name and responding to my own post; can we please move on?) Now back to assistants.
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Post by kersting13 on Dec 9, 2017 17:36:01 GMT -8
Dude, if you were paying attention you would have realized that Riley suspended those players. Dandridge was set to be our starting tailback and the general public was all in a tizzy because Riley was going to start some 160 pound true freshman named Simonton. The event and the bulk of the investigation took place during the summer, the players were never charged apparently. How long do you suspend them, 16/17 years? This is not to exhonorate them or ignore what they did, but should everyone accused be permanently suspended until a DA says some years later they will never prosecute? Times have changed, Ms. Tracy and Coach Riley are actually friends. If this were to happen today the punishment would likely be much different. As far as the deadline extension goes.... Coach Smith is looking at 10 assistant coach hires, as well as a lot of support staff, it probably won't be done for a month or so, might as well keep accepting resumes from the coaches that just found out they might be looking for jobs in the last few days. Okay, I am so over this stupid conversation. I am well aware he was suspended. My opinion is such players should have never been allowed to play at OSU again. That is my opinion. Charges or no charges. The evidence of what happened was sufficient to remove them from the team in my opinion. I also already granted my knowledge that Tracy and Riley are friends, I also granted that Riley probably would have handled it differently today. I still would prefer not having someone that handled it the way he did on staff. And I still don't think that is an irrational position. You disagree, great. As I said, I am wrong, you guys are all right. I apologize for bringing this stupid topic back up (I am taking the blame for everything including bringing a locked topic into another thread by stealing another posters screen name and responding to my own post; can we please move on?) Now back to assistants. Why pull out the "you are right, I am wrong" statement when you still claim he handled it so badly that you don't want him on staff? You've defended your position (poorly) and still don't agree. That's fine. People have stood by worse conclusions before. SaveSaveSaveSave
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Post by blodgettbeaver on Dec 10, 2017 7:45:27 GMT -8
Why as beaver fans do we have to jump to the half empty side of the thought process. Here is a glass half full thought for you. Maybe a big time DC decided late after mulling it over that he wanted the challenge and inquired after the closing period so the school felt legally obligated or to not get hassled they would repost because JS really wanted this hire. Let's see how it plays out. Go beavs!
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Post by osulax24 on Dec 10, 2017 9:30:42 GMT -8
Dude, if you were paying attention you would have realized that Riley suspended those players. Dandridge was set to be our starting tailback and the general public was all in a tizzy because Riley was going to start some 160 pound true freshman named Simonton. The event and the bulk of the investigation took place during the summer, the players were never charged apparently. How long do you suspend them, 16/17 years? This is not to exhonorate them or ignore what they did, but should everyone accused be permanently suspended until a DA says some years later they will never prosecute? Times have changed, Ms. Tracy and Coach Riley are actually friends. If this were to happen today the punishment would likely be much different. As far as the deadline extension goes.... Coach Smith is looking at 10 assistant coach hires, as well as a lot of support staff, it probably won't be done for a month or so, might as well keep accepting resumes from the coaches that just found out they might be looking for jobs in the last few days. Okay, I am so over this stupid conversation. I am well aware he was suspended. My opinion is such players should have never been allowed to play at OSU again. That is my opinion. Charges or no charges. The evidence of what happened was sufficient to remove them from the team in my opinion. I also already granted my knowledge that Tracy and Riley are friends, I also granted that Riley probably would have handled it differently today. I still would prefer not having someone that handled it the way he did on staff. And I still don't think that is an irrational position. You disagree, great. As I said, I am wrong, you guys are all right. I apologize for bringing this stupid topic back up (I am taking the blame for everything including bringing a locked topic into another thread by stealing another posters screen name and responding to my own post; can we please move on?) Now back to assistants. Don't poke the Riley nerds on this board, they will defend him over the girl that got raped. They love good ol Mikey boy
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Post by ostate on Dec 10, 2017 9:59:42 GMT -8
Okay, I am so over this stupid conversation. I am well aware he was suspended. My opinion is such players should have never been allowed to play at OSU again. That is my opinion. Charges or no charges. The evidence of what happened was sufficient to remove them from the team in my opinion. I also already granted my knowledge that Tracy and Riley are friends, I also granted that Riley probably would have handled it differently today. I still would prefer not having someone that handled it the way he did on staff. And I still don't think that is an irrational position. You disagree, great. As I said, I am wrong, you guys are all right. I apologize for bringing this stupid topic back up (I am taking the blame for everything including bringing a locked topic into another thread by stealing another posters screen name and responding to my own post; can we please move on?) Now back to assistants. Don't poke the Riley nerds on this board, they will defend him over the girl that got raped. They love good ol Mikey boy You go here for help to move forward from that lax...
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 10, 2017 10:25:43 GMT -8
Okay, I am so over this stupid conversation. I am well aware he was suspended. My opinion is such players should have never been allowed to play at OSU again. That is my opinion. Charges or no charges. The evidence of what happened was sufficient to remove them from the team in my opinion. I also already granted my knowledge that Tracy and Riley are friends, I also granted that Riley probably would have handled it differently today. I still would prefer not having someone that handled it the way he did on staff. And I still don't think that is an irrational position. You disagree, great. As I said, I am wrong, you guys are all right. I apologize for bringing this stupid topic back up (I am taking the blame for everything including bringing a locked topic into another thread by stealing another posters screen name and responding to my own post; can we please move on?) Now back to assistants. Don't poke the Riley nerds on this board, they will defend him over the girl that got raped. They love good ol Mikey boy Clearly the girl who was raped was the important one here. The real question is what the coaches knew at the time, and to some extent what the standard reaction of the time was (I hate to say it, because there is no defending rape). Societally, many things are handled differently today than they were a mere twenty years ago. Go back another 20 and it's even moreso. Do we or should we always judge the past solely by today's standards? It'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out.
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