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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 11:41:51 GMT -8
LSU was coming off an 8-5 season, apples and oranges. That is incorrect. LSU was coming off a 13-1 season where they won the national championship. Oregon State was 8-5 the season prior. I am not talking about the record of the team they are playing. OSU as an 8-5 team coming off a blow out win in the Las Vegas Bowl was mentally prepared to go play a team like LSU. Right now, OSU is coming off a 1-11 season, they are not (and will not no matter how good Smith is) mentally prepared to go play a team like Ohio State. |
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Dec 1, 2017 11:47:35 GMT -8
Post by osux2 on Dec 1, 2017 11:47:35 GMT -8
Visiting Columbus Ohio ain't exactly on my bucket list. Youngorst, believe me it wouldn't have been on mine either, but after several people, whom I trust, (granted one is a Duck fan) have said it was one of most fun college towns they ever visited, that intrigued me. You will have fun in Columbus. Tailgating is on another level compared to the Pac-12. You may get some jeers, but you're just as likely to get friendly conversation and a free beer. |
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Dec 1, 2017 11:48:39 GMT -8
Post by nabeav on Dec 1, 2017 11:48:39 GMT -8
I don't think the only positive is the money either. The teams you face in conference are far closer to Ohio State than Weber State or Portland State. I also think you learn more in defeat than you do in victory.
Our conference records when playing so called "Body Bag" games (I'm excluding Wisconsin since that was a home and home)
2004: 5-3 (LSU)
2008: 7-2 (Penn St.)
2010: 4-5 (TCU)
2015: 0-9 (Michigan)
16-19 in those seasons, including the trash fire debut of Gary Andersen....I still contend we'd have been better in 2015 under Riley, which means 17-18 or 18-17 at least. Getting your teeth kicked in early season doesn't derail your entire campaign. How many millions of times have we heard the talking heads say it's better to lose early than to lose late?
Also, I love this idea that we're setting ourselves up as massive failures because five times in the last twenty seasons we took a game on the road against a traditional power. This isn't the 1980s:
1980: at Texas
1981: at Minnesota, at LSU
1982: at LSU
1983: at Colorado
1984: at Ohio State
1986: at Michigan
1987: at Georgia, at Texas
1988: at Colorado
1889: at Nebraska
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Dec 1, 2017 11:51:57 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 11:51:57 GMT -8
I'm not talking about when the game was scheduled (the Ohio State game was scheduled when Riley was coach), I am talking about when the game was played and it was after an 8-5 season. So you meant after OREGON STATE was coming off an 8-5 season (2003)? You didn't make that clear.
OSU opened 1-4 that next year (2004). Was it because of that LSU 22-21 throttling?
I realize that wasn't clear when I went back and read it but yes that is what I meant. I have no idea what caused them to start 1-4 but I think losing they way they did (the missed extra points) probably played a role more than the opponent. I was attending OSU at that time and it wasn't a good vibe on campus, even remember being on the little bus that takes you around campus with Serna once and many students were not very nice to him. I didn't have a problem with going to LSU coming off an 8-5 season. I wouldn't schedule that as an opening game personally and would never play anyone unwilling to make the return trip to Corvallis under any circumstance (other than a true neutral site game) but that game was not played after what might be the worst season in OSU football history so its an apples to oranges comparison. |
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Dec 1, 2017 11:53:50 GMT -8
Post by nabeav on Dec 1, 2017 11:53:50 GMT -8
Also, scheduling for the Ohio State game was agreed to prior to the 2014 season. We were coming off a 7-6 season then.
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Dec 1, 2017 11:55:57 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 11:55:57 GMT -8
I don't think the only positive is the money either. The teams you face in conference are far closer to Ohio State than Weber State or Portland State. I also think you learn more in defeat than you do in victory. Our conference records when playing so called "Body Bag" games (I'm excluding Wisconsin since that was a home and home) 2004: 5-3 (LSU) 2008: 7-2 (Penn St.) 2010: 4-5 (TCU) 2015: 0-9 (Michigan) 16-19 in those seasons, including the trash fire debut of Gary Andersen....I still contend we'd have been better in 2015 under Riley, which means 17-18 or 18-17 at least. Getting your teeth kicked in early season doesn't derail your entire campaign. How many millions of times have we heard the talking heads say it's better to lose early than to lose late? Also, I love this idea that we're setting ourselves up as massive failures because five times in the last twenty seasons we took a game on the road against a traditional power. This isn't the 1980s: 1980: at Texas 1981: at Minnesota, at LSU 1982: at LSU 1983: at Colorado 1984: at Ohio State 1986: at Michigan 1987: at Georgia, at Texas 1988: at Colorado 1889: at Nebraska Ugh...No we are setting ourselves up for failure because we are playing this game coming off possibly the worst season in OSU history. Playing these games is unacceptable without a return game IMO but you are setting yourself up for failure only when you play these games after a really bad season. If they were 7-6 this season I'd still be agains the game (due to no return trip) but wouldn't say it was setting them up for failure. Coming off a 1-11 season, it is setting them up for failure. You can disagree but I stand by my opinion. I think going to Columbus costs them at least 1 win in 2018 in addition to the loss they will take that day. I have no way to prove it but it is what I believe. |
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Dec 1, 2017 11:56:30 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 11:56:30 GMT -8
Also, scheduling for the Ohio State game was agreed to prior to the 2014 season. We were coming off a 7-6 season then. I don't care when it was scheduled. They could have gotten out of it (probably still could). Teams back out and move games all the time. OSU should have done that months ago when it became clear 2017 was a dumpster fire. |
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Post by ochobeavo on Dec 1, 2017 12:08:30 GMT -8
I don't think the only positive is the money either. The teams you face in conference are far closer to Ohio State than Weber State or Portland State. I also think you learn more in defeat than you do in victory. YES! My own philosophy right there. Warning: sports dad/coach thing ahead.. My kid from day one always wanted to wrestle the toughest kid in the room, whether it was practice or a tournament. I can tell you plenty of times it didn't go well. Plenty of times he took a beating. I can also point to plenty of times he dusted himself off and said "that really wasn't too bad, I'm not very far away" and I can tell you EVERY SINGLE TIME it caused him use the loss as a measuring stick and to hit it that much harder at practice the next day. I can also tell you about another kid we had who always picked out someone from our JV team as his practice partners so he'd have an easy afternoon. 4 years go by and he's not much better as a senior than he was as a freshman. I don't want to pick Weber State or Idaho State as our JV practice partner. So maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm squarely in the - take a swing at the champ, take your lumps, see where you stand, use it as a measuring stick camp... |
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Dec 1, 2017 12:16:25 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 12:16:25 GMT -8
I don't think the only positive is the money either. The teams you face in conference are far closer to Ohio State than Weber State or Portland State. I also think you learn more in defeat than you do in victory. YES! My own philosophy right there. Warning: sports dad/coach thing ahead.. My kid from day one always wanted to wrestle the toughest kid in the room, whether it was practice or a tournament. I can tell you plenty of times it didn't go well. Plenty of times he took a beating. I can also point to plenty of times he dusted himself off and said "that really wasn't too bad, I'm not very far away" and I can tell you EVERY SINGLE TIME it caused him use the loss as a measuring stick and to hit it that much harder at practice the next day. I can also tell you about another kid we had who always picked out someone from our JV team as his practice partners so he'd have an easy afternoon. 4 years go by and he's not much better as a senior than he was as a freshman. I don't want to pick Weber State or Idaho State as our JV practice partner. So maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm squarely in the - take a swing at the champ, take your lumps, see where you stand, use it as a measuring stick camp... Was his first match ever agains the toughest and most experienced kid in the room? If it was, that is poor coaching. Because there is a difference. Having a freshman who has never wrestled wrestle the defending state champ day one probably isn't gonna help his developed. Now, after that freshman has gained some experience, beat a few kids, at that point having him wrestle the defending state champ probably would help his development. |
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Post by steinlager on Dec 1, 2017 12:23:34 GMT -8
In the immortal words of the nature boy Ric Flair, "If you want to be the man, you have to beat the man."
I think the players would rather have the memory of playing the Buckeyes in the fabled shoe than a FCS school.
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Dec 1, 2017 12:24:32 GMT -8
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 1, 2017 12:24:32 GMT -8
Perhaps our new mottos should be:
"Fear the challenge!"
or
"Follow the path of least resistance!"
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Dec 1, 2017 12:27:52 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 12:27:52 GMT -8
Perhaps our new mottos should be: "Fear the challenge!" or "Follow the path of least resistance!" Nope, how bout? Schedule with a brain? When Bill Snyder came back to Kansas State, the first thing he did was get out of games he knew the program wasn't ready to play. And he isn't the only one, schools (even top schools) do this all the time. Its smart. You play Ohio State when your program is ready to play Ohio State. Playing them when they are not ready doesn't benefit the kids or the program in anyway beyond a paycheck. |
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Dec 1, 2017 12:29:48 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 12:29:48 GMT -8
Was his first match ever agains the toughest and more experienced kid in the room? If it was, that is poor coaching. Because there is a difference. Having a freshman who has never wrestled wrestle the defending state champ day one probably isn't gonna help his developed. Now, after that freshman has gained some experience, beat a few kids, at that point having him wrestle the defending state champ probably would help his development. That's a downright idiotic example (above). Just sayin'. I am not the one that came up with the metaphor but I don't think its idiotic at all. Coming off a 1-11 season breaking in a new staff (and possibly a new QB) against a well established staff on the road is pretty dang close to having your freshman line up against the defending state champ day one. Its not gonna end well and frankly no one is gonna learn anything from the experience. I am shocked that my position is so controversial around here. Its a pretty damn common position for most programs playing major college football. |
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Dec 1, 2017 12:37:50 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by ochobeavo on Dec 1, 2017 12:37:50 GMT -8
YES! My own philosophy right there. Warning: sports dad/coach thing ahead.. My kid from day one always wanted to wrestle the toughest kid in the room, whether it was practice or a tournament. I can tell you plenty of times it didn't go well. Plenty of times he took a beating. I can also point to plenty of times he dusted himself off and said "that really wasn't too bad, I'm not very far away" and I can tell you EVERY SINGLE TIME it caused him use the loss as a measuring stick and to hit it that much harder at practice the next day. I can also tell you about another kid we had who always picked out someone from our JV team as his practice partners so he'd have an easy afternoon. 4 years go by and he's not much better as a senior than he was as a freshman. I don't want to pick Weber State or Idaho State as our JV practice partner. So maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm squarely in the - take a swing at the champ, take your lumps, see where you stand, use it as a measuring stick camp... Was his first match ever agains the toughest and most experienced kid in the room? If it was, that is poor coaching. Because there is a difference. Having a freshman who has never wrestled wrestle the defending state champ day one probably isn't gonna help his developed. Now, after that freshman has gained some experience, beat a few kids, at that point having him wrestle the defending state champ probably would help his development. ahh, so in your analogy none of our players have ever actually played Division 1 football until next September. |
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Dec 1, 2017 12:40:48 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 12:40:48 GMT -8
I am not the one that came up with the metaphor but I don't think its idiotic at all. Coming off a 1-11 season breaking in a new staff (and possibly a new QB) against a well established staff on the road is pretty dang close to having your freshman line up against the defending state champ day one. Its not gonna end well and frankly no one is gonna learn anything from the experience. I am shocked that my position is so controversial around here. Its a pretty damn common position for most programs playing major college football. No. Your example was of a freshman who has never even wrestled and an extremely poor analogy. Okay, fine. A freshman that lost every match vs. 8th graders the year before and only beat one 6th grader now going against the defending high school conference champion in his first match. How's that? You still think that match is good for the kids development as a wrestler? Because I do not. More importantly, I want someone to explain why doing what virtually every program does (get out of game they aren't ready for) is so controversial? |
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